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So I figured up all the train symbols that run the holly sub I got 14 total I wanna know if thats correct?
CN Q119-61
CN Q189-61
CN Q190-51
CN A450-61
CN E251-61
CN E280-91
CN E296-71
CN L507-61
CN L508-61
CN M371-61
CN Q116-91
CN S756-81
AMTK 364
AMTK 365

Do those train symbols sound correct? Not all are daily I belive the Holly Sub averages 5-8 trains daily

More incorrect and outdated information.

GTW6401 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:59 pm

More incorrect and outdated information.

Whats the train symbols now? And how many trains daily met a crazy guy in Durand who told me the Holly Sub averages 20 trains I tried to tell him its more like 5 how many would you say the Holly Sub averages?

Stop. Just stop. I don’t know who/what your sources are, or if you’re just guessing, but it’s getting annoying.

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:27 pm

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

Man that line has been rough recently

David Collins wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:09 pm

Stop. Just stop. I don’t know who/what your sources are, or if you’re just guessing, but it’s getting annoying.

Maybe the Flint and South Bend sub was a little excessive but this one I am actually being serious isnt 5-8 trains daily correct??

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:27 pm

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

NickThatRailfan wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:03 am

Maybe the Flint and South Bend sub was a little excessive but this one I am actually being serious isnt 5-8 trains daily correct??

Yeah, it's as SD80MAC specified.

Occasionally, you get an S756 which is a unit sand train, and sometimes an X491. Neither daily and S756 can be more scarce/seasonal, but adds to the traffic at times. X491 (if not for whatever reason X251) are ordered if there's a crew to proceed with freight that's requested to be taken.

Amtrak-wise, there's P350-P352-P354 and P351-P353-P355. (I don't know if all 6 are actively running though or just a few). These go between Chicago and Pontiac. Even number to Pontiac, odd number to Chicago. There's no AMTK route between Pontiac/Durand.

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?

bluewonderrails wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:28 am

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:27 pm

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

Yeah, it's as SD80MAC specified.

Occasionally, you get an S756 which is a unit sand train, and sometimes an X491. Neither daily and S756 can be more scarce/seasonal, but adds to the traffic at times. X491 (if not for whatever reason X251) are ordered if there's a crew to proceed with freight that's requested to be taken.

Amtrak-wise, there's P350-P352-P354 and P351-P353-P355. (I don't know if all 6 are actively running though or just a few). These go between Chicago and Pontiac. Even number to Pontiac, odd number to Chicago. There's no AMTK route between Pontiac/Durand.

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:47 am

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?

Ah yeah forgot of the coke train. I believe they are as I've seen one or a couple at least in the last month or two. I've mainly only ever found them (while not trying to) on the Fort St cam searching for the day's E251 when I find out about it, but don't do that too often personally. I don't know the symbol for it either

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:27 pm

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

515/514/513

NickThatRailfan wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:03 am

David Collins wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:09 pm

Stop. Just stop. I don’t know who/what your sources are, or if you’re just guessing, but it’s getting annoying.

Maybe the Flint and South Bend sub was a little excessive but this one I am actually being serious isnt 5-8 trains daily correct??

An average day would have 251/116/507/508 on the whole

515/514 and wolverine x6 south of Pontiac

Technically wouldn't the GLC run from Durand to Pitt Jct be on the Holly Sub as well? Does this get a CN train symbol while running over the Holly Sub.

bluewonderrails wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:20 am

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:47 am

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?

Ah yeah forgot of the coke train. I believe they are as I've seen one or a couple at least in the last month or two. I've mainly only ever found them (while not trying to) on the Fort St cam searching for the day's E251 when I find out about it, but don't do that too often personally. I don't know the symbol for it either

That was L575, which runs downriver from Ecorse to Dearborn via Flat Rock. Any coke moving on the Holly isn't in unit trains.

Also, no 514 anymore to Moterm. 507 and 508 move the intermodal to/from Flint.

Another extra symbol is M356 to Flat Rock. Those run very sporadicity.

L513 is the evening Pontiac yard job. They also work the customers on the subdivision. L515 is the morning job that works from Pontiac down onto the Mt. Clemens Subdivision.

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:47 am

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?

bluewonderrails wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:28 am

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:27 pm

The only daily trains on the Holly are Q116, E251, L508, L507, and whatever the Pontiac job’s symbol is these days.

Yeah, it's as SD80MAC specified.

Occasionally, you get an S756 which is a unit sand train, and sometimes an X491. Neither daily and S756 can be more scarce/seasonal, but adds to the traffic at times. X491 (if not for whatever reason X251) are ordered if there's a crew to proceed with freight that's requested to be taken.

Amtrak-wise, there's P350-P352-P354 and P351-P353-P355. (I don't know if all 6 are actively running though or just a few). These go between Chicago and Pontiac. Even number to Pontiac, odd number to Chicago. There's no AMTK route between Pontiac/Durand.

I’ve seen it a handful of times parked in Flat Rock over the last 6 months or so. Caught it once leaving Woodhaven towards Dearborn on the Dearborn line.

Chip wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:24 pm

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?
I’ve seen it a handful of times parked in Flat Rock over the last 6 months or so. Caught it once leaving Woodhaven towards Dearborn on the Dearborn line.

Chip, the one you saw going from Woodhaven toward Dearborn on the Dearborn Line is a shuttle train between the coke plant (Ecorse or Zug Island) and the steel mill in Dearborn. It's surprising CN would handle such a short run.

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 6:28 pm

Chip wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:24 pm

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?
I’ve seen it a handful of times parked in Flat Rock over the last 6 months or so. Caught it once leaving Woodhaven towards Dearborn on the Dearborn line.

Chip, the one you saw going from Woodhaven toward Dearborn on the Dearborn Line is a shuttle train between the coke plant (Ecorse or Zug Island) and the steel mill in Dearborn. It's surprising CN would handle such a short run.

It’s also surprising they would use a single 6-axle loco on that line when they typically use 4 axle power.

Chip wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:24 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 6:28 pm

Chip wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:24 pm

Is CN still operating a coke train between Flat Rock (Ecorse or Zug Island) and one of the steel mills east of Chicago?
I’ve seen it a handful of times parked in Flat Rock over the last 6 months or so. Caught it once leaving Woodhaven towards Dearborn on the Dearborn line.

Chip, the one you saw going from Woodhaven toward Dearborn on the Dearborn Line is a shuttle train between the coke plant (Ecorse or Zug Island) and the steel mill in Dearborn. It's surprising CN would handle such a short run.

It’s also surprising they would use a single 6-axle loco on that line when they typically use 4 axle power.

CN doesn't have enough 4 axles to use them on every job that should really be using them, unfortunately.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:55 am

Chip wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:24 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 07, 2023 6:28 pm

Chip, the one you saw going from Woodhaven toward Dearborn on the Dearborn Line is a shuttle train between the coke plant (Ecorse or Zug Island) and the steel mill in Dearborn. It's surprising CN would handle such a short run.

It’s also surprising they would use a single 6-axle loco on that line when they typically use 4 axle power.

CN doesn't have enough 4 axles to use them on every job that should really be using them, unfortunately.

Have they gone on a scrapping or selling spree lately? They used to always have a bunch of geeps in Flat Rock for local jobs beyond the pair used for yard duty.

CN Q119-61 - Northbound Extra Intermodal out of Moterm that turns Westbound at Durand. There were a few of these symbols last year, but haven't seen/heard of one in a while.
CN Q189-61 - Northbound Extra Intermodal out of Moterm that turns Westbound at Durand. There were a few of these symbols last year, but haven't seen/heard of one in a while. I think this one goes way out somewhere in Western Canada, but someone would have to verify.
CN Q190-51 - Not familiar with this symbol at all, and does not run on the Holly Sub.
CN A450-61 - Old Symbol that does not run anymore.
CN E251-61 - Northbound Daily Train out of Flatrock that turns Westbound at Durand. Once and a while we will see an X-251 as well.
CN E280-91 - Southbound Autorack train that runs as needed for down to Flatrock. There have been a few times that we had 2 - 280s in one day, but that's rare.
CN E296-71 - Only saw/heard this symbol a few times in the past as an extra Southbound manifest.
CN M356 - This is the most common extra Southbound Manifest, runs as needed only.
CN 491 or X491 - This is the most common extra Northbound Manifest, runs as needed only.
CN L507-61 - Daily Northbound Pontiac to Flint/Moterm
CN L508-61 - Daily Southbound Flint back to Pontiac/Moterm
CN M371-61 - Westbound M371 used to run years ago on the Flint and Southbend Subs. This is not a current symbol anywhere in Michigan that I am aware of.
CN Q116-91 - Daily Intermodal/Autorack train from Chicago to Moterm/Flat Rock
CN S756-81 - Southbound Sand Train that runs only once and a while. There were several of these trains rather semi-frequently last year, but have only been a few in 2023.
AMTK 364 - Flint and Southbend Subs only (Chicago to Pt. Huron)
AMTK 365 - Flint and Southbend Subs only (Pt. Huron to Chicago)