CSX/CN Close To Agreement

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:00 pm

Apparantly, the CSX and CN are close to an agreement that would give Canadian National haulage rights between St. Louis and Toledo, via the old Big Four and the old Conrail Toledo Branch from Ridgeway to Toledo, then into Lang Yard, and vice versa.

This had been flying under the radar for awhile, and I just heard about it. I wonder if Matt knows anything about it?

sd70accsxt700 · Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Have not heard a thing. With out looking at a map right now, isint there a IC line that runs that way, or runs close? I cant say for sure, but it does not sound right.

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:22 pm

IC runs from St. Louis to Chicago, then you have the CN from Chicago to Detroit... Seems like St. Louis-Ridgeway-Toledo-Detroit would be faster.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:31 pm

That could very well happen guys if the CN doesn't get the EJ&E, hunter said he will seek other options if he has to. we shall see.

sd70accsxt700 · Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:37 pm

If CN already has a rout to St. Louis PC, what does the EJE deal have to do with it. They alead have a route that they could run from Canada to St Louis via GTW IC.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:52 pm

I actualy meant traffic from detroit to st louis woudn't have to go through chicago like it does now, it goes up the holly sub then to chicago then south, thanks SD70ACCSXT700.

David Lang · Unread post by **David Lang** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:32 am

Guys - does this mean more trains for the Mt. Clemens Sub, or just existing trains to and from Pt. Huron (on the Mt. Clemens Sub) will now continue further than Lang Yard in Toledo???? Please help me on this one, thanks!!!!

Dave Lang

RRTTF · Unread post by **RRTTF** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:45 am

Funny, I heard the same rumor from a friend of mine who is well placed at CN/GTW, but he was saying that they (CN) are negotiating a deal with NS to route traffic to Toledo and then over to Saint Louis. This arrangement also involves trains to be received/delivered with UP at Saint Louis for locations further west.

So, it will be interesting to see whether it will be CSX or NS that partners with CN on this deal.

MSchwiebert · Unread post by **MSchwiebert** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:29 am

Both the Toledo Branch & the former Conrail St. Louis line have capacity to give and this may be a way to utilize this and get some freight handed off at a location other than Chicago.

CSX_CO · Unread post by **CSX_CO** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:58 am

The only problem is that St. Louis is a shi...terrible place to try and give anything to the UP. This morning there were SIX trains waiting to get onto the UP at Roselake and Highland, IL (first siding east of St Louis). There were 2 coal trains and 4 freight trains waiting for the UP to take them. More were on the way with the UP wanting traffic interchanged at St Louis vs Chicago because of the flooding.

Also, I don't think the CN or IC have a very good connection at E. St Louis unless you use another railroad (Alton and Southern maybe?)

UP LOVES to give away trains at Roselake, but are loathe to take anything off.

Practice Safe CSX

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:27 am

MSchwiebert wrote:Both the Toledo Branch & the former Conrail St. Louis line have capacity to give and this may be a way to utilize this and get some freight handed off at a location other than Chicago.

The only problem with Toledo Branch will be siding capacity if a meet must take place. The siding in North Baltimore can handle a decent sized train, but the track is pretty questionable. Sidings south of there are spaced about 15-20 miles between all the way to Ridgeway. If this agreement becomes full, that will add 5-6 trains a day to the 6 per day that use the line now, on top of a few intermodal trains a day coming from the new yard when it's done. The line handled around 30 a day in Conrail days, so I'm sure it can handle around 20, but some of the track has gone to hell, so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

CSX_CO · Unread post by **CSX_CO** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:56 pm

The Q218 and Q219 with Q131 and Q132 are the only 'scheduled' trains on the branch. There is the Kenton Local that runs around at night.

Q636 and Q637 were moved off the Branch because they were 'putting the screws' to the Indy based trains. Three hours to set off cars at Kenton finally got noticed...

As far as sidings, the N. Control at Ridgeway is probably 12,000+ ft long, Dunkirk is decently sized at 8000' (CP 63 to CP 64 IIRC?), Hancock is probably every bit of 10,000' long (CP 48 to CP 46), Galetea is the smallest of the sidings and its around 6000' IIRC (CP 34 to CP 32 IIRC), and Dunbridge is 10,000' long (CP 13 to CP 16 IIRC). Sidings have been dropped to 10 mph, except for the N. Control at Ridgeway which is 15. If necessary, there used to be a siding between Mortimer and Findlay which could be relaid if necessary. Changing ties and adding 'relay' welded rail would do wonders too. Hancock already has the rail laying there.

It could handle the traffic, and I know I'd like to see more turns on the east end boards.

Practice Safe CSX

MSchwiebert · Unread post by **MSchwiebert** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:04 pm

Should be no problem to run 10-12 Trains north of Ridgeway - if it comes to pass.

The Toledo Branch won't be a player in the North Baltimore intermodal terminal either as there are no plans to put in a connection track at Galatea. Columbus bound trains will run via the C&O side and Cincinnati bound trains will run via Deshler. The only market that would conceivably involve the Toledo Branch would be Indianapolis/St. Louis and that would be in all likelyhood be routed via Marion at least initially.

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:26 pm

I was sure they were doing the grading for a SW Connection last week, but I must be wrong.

When did 636 and 637 get moved off? I saw a northbound mixed frieght sitting in Mortimer last week with CSX 8168, 8530, and 7605 and around 90 cars, or could that have been 218 with extra freight?

CSX_CO · Unread post by **CSX_CO** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:40 pm

Y@ Heilman wrote:I was sure they were doing the grading for a SW Connection last week, but I must be wrong.

Between I-75 and the large pond there from the excavating for the I-75 overpass there really is no room for a connection track there. I don't recall if there was ever a connection track at Galetea, but it strikes me that it was in the NW Quad before I-75 was constructed? I could be wrong though.

Any traffic bound for Indy or St. Louis from that facility could be just as easily move via Fostoria and Marion to Indy. Same routing that Q146 and Q147 take for much of their trip to Columbus. C&O south of Marion is not cleared for 20'2" cars, hence the 'long way' to Ridgeway and down.

Q636/637 have been gone for several months now, probably since around the first of the year.

Practice Safe CSX

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:47 pm

There was a NW Connection that was removed not too long before the Conrail Split, and a SW Connection that was removed in the mid 60's.

MDH · Unread post by **MDH** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:35 pm

[quote="Y@ Heilman"]When did 636 and 637 get moved off?

I think it was around the end of last year/early this year. I recall at one point due to some track work/problems on the C&O a 637 crew who had just got on their train in Stanley was asked if they were qualified down the Branch and replied to the effect of "I didn't think we went that way any more". Lots of back and forth after that and the crew wasn't real thrilled with heading that way. That was early this year and I haven't seen a 637 on the branch since...

I'd love to see the CN haulage on the Branch pan out though - more trains for me to see every day!

Regards,
Michael

sd70accsxt700 · Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:42 pm

Hi Michael. Welcome aboard. I was on your K389 you shot at New London later that night.

Fred · Unread post by **Fred** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:08 pm

I believe the EJE deal is to assist the CN with westbound traffic to avoid the heavy traffic of inner Chicago's major conjestion. The deal with CSXT will give CN a much shorter route to St :ouis and points in Texas. Instead of heading north out of Flat Rock into Detroit & north to Durand before heading west over a not-so-straight-line route into Chicago, the new train can run south out of Flat Rock into Toledo down the ex Conrail line south to Ridgeway and then west on the Big Four main into St Louis. Route has to be a lot shorter. How much quicker it will be will depend on CSXT's ability to handle the additional traffic.

MSchwiebert · Unread post by **MSchwiebert** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:03 pm

Not at Galatea, There hasn't been any sort of transfer track there for at least 30-40 years. Here's a link to a couple of aerial photos taken of a derailment that Chessie had there back in 1977 and there were no interchange tracks then.

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abpr.cgi?dir=0 ... &s=chessie

Y@ Heilman wrote:There was a NW Connection that was removed not too long before the Conrail Split, and a SW Connection that was removed in the mid 60's.

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CSX/CN Close To Agreement

CSX/CN Close To Agreement

What does this mean for Mt. Clemens Sub traffic????

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