Cool, but gives use REGULAR railfans a bad name

[Bluewaterfan]

This guy created this bike which is used to ride railroad tracks. He says he has clocked over 200 miles, all of it done illegally.

It's a cool bike, but.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORNukrG1QMM

Here is his website, it says they are railfans, yet gives tips on how to hobo on a train!
http://freightyard.net/SLOBoes/

[i995impalass]

i shake my head at that

[markvz]

That railroad-coaster is pretty neat. I like their orthogonal wheel in place of a flange. The music is pretty hilarious too.

Their actions really don't bother me as long as they're willing to accept the consequences of what they're doing. If they can manage to have fun without getting caught or killed, more power to them. Though they wouldn't get any sympathy from me if they did get hurt of killed. It's a victimless crime in the way that those commiting it would be the ones who die if they met a train. Their actions themselves harm nobody.

They're pretty gutsy to show their faces in that video. Now all it would take for them to get into trouble is someone to recognize and report them. It seems like videotaping oneself commiting a crime most often backfires and the video becomes evidence in court. The moral of the story is that if you're going to break the law, don't video-tape it, or at least take some measures to remain anonymous on the video. Those kids are toast if the right people come across the video.

[sd70accsxt700]

Wow Mark you really throw me off in this one. There actions themselves harm nobody? Yea physicaly no they dont, but dont think for one second, that the railroads havent seen this, and have hiped up security in that area, because of those morons. Im sorry but to call yourself railfans and represent railfans, like that for everyone to see, they should be fined, locked up and thrown out of the "railfan" community. It is the actions of this kind of crap, that the rest of us who respect the railroads, end up having to be harrased because of. I dont see anyone out harrasing some one taking photos of animnals or flowers. And as far as a victimless crime if they get run over. Tell that one to the conductor and engineer who hits them and then has to walk back and find the mangled mess that was these two morons. I may have been out here only 7 years now, but dont tell me it is a victimless crime! I work with the guys who have hit and killed some on, that now allways have there hand ready to dump it if it is even close, cause thay have killed some moron like these guys. Oh and the day one of those guys dumps it, without hitting anyone, and derails all over your town with a cloud of chemicals and everyone has to evacuate, then tell me it is a victimless crime. It has happened.

[SousaKerry]

I have often thought of building one myself but some little voice in the back of my head said no. But I do have the flanged wheels I salvaged them off an old overhead crane. Of coarse if I could find a railroad that would give permition I would complete my project.

You do have to admit they had a nice desighn almost using a roller coaster idea to hold it on the tracks.

[E]

Well.. from what the guy says in the comments section.. its obvious that these guys know what they are doing as far as takeing the proper saftey measures.... still there is some danger involved.. but.. there is danger in every activity.. I am a cyclist and trust me.. I put my self in more danger rideing my bicycle on the city streets everyday then these guys to.. and what im doing is "legal." For alot of people the legalities.. especially ones involving property issues..such as this, really aren't of ethical importance. The only reason I bring that up.. cuz so many times on this board.. the reason I hear for why somone feels somthing is wrong.. is because its "illegal." Well I have come to the conclusion that in todays world anything you do where the spending of money in not involved is probally breaking one law or another.. ok im off on a bit of a tangent here.. but I would like to comment on this:

There actions themselves harm nobody? Yea physicaly no they dont, but dont think for one second, that the railroads havent seen this, and have hiped up security in that area, because of those morons. Im sorry but to call yourself railfans and represent railfans, like that for everyone to see, they should be fined, locked up and thrown out of the "railfan" community.

yeah.. Im so sure that all the railroads have got together and had a meeting to watch the video so they could discuss "hiping" up the security. Serioulsy.. I doubt they have seen this video.. or would really care that much to be honestly.. Railroads primary concerns.. im guessing (i havent studied this or anything) would involve things like crossing saftey.. Worrying about gangs who rob boxcars and containers, derailments, and illeagal aliens using trains to get accross the boarder.. Now if this became some new trend and kids everywhere were making their own rail coasters.. then maybe.. ha.. but come on. "fined, locked up, and thrown out of the railfan community" you think ANYONE besides a few foamers on a railfan message board would really care about this. I didnt realize the "railfan community" was such an organized institution? Comeplete with a set code of conduct and rule book. Where can I pay my dues?? Bring on the secret railroad police.. lets run a check on their railfan membership cards!
-E

[GreatLakesRailfan]

Hey E,
Don't get too carried away thinking that the railroads have bigger and worse concerns than a couple kids joy riding on a homebuilt contraption. For one thing, while there is plenty of "real" crime for the RR cops to worry about, just like other cops (as far as I know, anyway), they're responsible for the safety on the entire system, and I have heard of people (including at least one member of this site) who have been caught trespassing on RR property by RR cops. And its not just the RR company officials who watch sites like this for whatever reason, I've heard from some pretty good sources that (at least) one of the CN cops in Michigan reads some of these boards.
I believe though that the real issue isn't that a couple of kids are having some fun on RR property without permission, but that they're tresspassing on RR property and doing so in what could be interpreted as a blantant and dangerous manner (or something like that). I also believe you're right about the dangers of cycling, but if you get hurt while you're out cycling, the only people really liable for your injuries are either the person who hurt you or yourself. You're probably not too likely to sue whoever owns the road you were on. On the other hand, if these kids get hurt or killed while trespassing like this, legally the RR could be sued either by these kids or by their survivors. Because of lawsuits like this, the RRs have a lot more reasons to pay attention to stuff posted about them on the internet, especially when it could have some financial impact on them in the future.
One other thing...Utube is one of the number one video hosting websites. It is likely that if the officials of the RR on whose line the video was shot didn't find it on their own, some member of the railfan community (probably several) emailed the company (UP?) or otherwise brought it to their attention.

[i995impalass]

i still shake my head no at it, my 200 lb frame and a 60 lb bike dont stand a chance from tons of metal

[SousaKerry]

Oh and BTW I have run across a few companies that actually make attachments to bolt onto your bycicle for this sport. I am not sure if they are still in buisness or not it was several years ago.


Sousa

[markvz]

SD70,

I don't see the correlation between what these kids are doing and backlash against people taking pictures of trains. The two actions are completely different. As I've stated before, if the RR police have issues with me taking pictures from public property or private property with permission, they can either infom me of the laws I'm breaking, or leave me alone. They can't justify lashing out against railfans who aren't doing anything wrong. If they're after you, it's probably for good reason. If not, they can only take your rights away if you let them. Your "slippery slope" argument regarding the effects on railfans doesn't apply here. That's like saying that the 9/11 suicide bombers put all pilots in a bad light. It doesn't work.

What these kids are doing is blatantly illegal. I never said that I encourage what they're doing, just that it doesn't bother me. If they get locked up or killed because of this, they had it coming.

I can't help but admire the effort they put into that though. It's a pretty neat idea and I'm sure it's quite a thrill to ride that. For being reckless, they've done some good research on how not to get hit by a train. Some youths spend their time destroying things, but these kids actually built something. It's illegal but in itself it's not destructive.

I don't know how you propose securing an entire rural rail line against such activity. If you think the railroad poilice are going to set up some sort of patrol to try to catch these kids, you're probably mistaken. It would be cheaper to clean up the mess later.

As far as the anguish of the engineer, that comes with the job. Simple statistics indicate that people get killed by trains occasionally, and it's something you'd have to accept if you wanted to be an engineer. In most cases, those who get killed were doing something illegal, so what does it matter if it's someone trying to beat the train or some adrenaline junkie kids getting nailed on their cart? They seem much more savvy about trains than someone who thinks they can beat the train. The engineer is not a victim in this case. He is simply taking the risks associated with his job. Personally I wouldn't lose sleep over the whole thing if some kids drove their cart into the front of my train. Again, they know the risks quite well. If their relatives tried to sue the RR, they'd fail miserably after the kid's website got introduced to the trial. Heck, the parents probably know about it. It wouldn't exactly be easy to hide the cart.

If you join the armed forces you should expect that someday you may have to kill somebody. If you become an engineer, you should accept that someday an accident may claim the life of a pedestrian despite your best efforts. It happens every day.

I think you're getting upset over nothing. What these kids are doing doesn't even register on the grand scale of railroad security. Hundreds of people play hobo on trains every day, and this is not much different. If the railroad was really that concerned about it, they would have found the kids already, because they've distributed video of themselves doing this. You'd have heard about it on the news somewhere.

It's not the smartest thing to do, but I can't help but admire their desire to actually create something and execute their plans. Most of us are probably guilty of doing something like this as a kid, even if it wasn't the exact same thing. There are far worse things they could be doing with their time and abilities. I can relate to their enthusiasm and sense of adventure. I just hope they live long enough to get a little wiser.

Regards,

Mark

[markvz]

I work with the guys who have hit and killed some on, that now allways have there hand ready to dump it if it is even close, cause thay have killed some moron like these guys. Oh and the day one of those guys dumps it, without hitting anyone, and derails all over your town with a cloud of chemicals and everyone has to evacuate, then tell me it is a victimless crime. It has happened.

Are you inferring that it is not an engineer's normal responsibility to remain alert and ready to respond to emergency situations? You make it sound like the engineer is being asked to perform special duties by preparing to respond to potentially dangerous situations.

If an engineer caused a derailment to save a trespasser and in the process killed many more through his actions, I would say that he/she is negligent. Kinda like swerving off of the road to save a squirrel in your path. The squirrel isn't worth it.

You have employed a fair amount of fearmongering in your response. This is much ado over nothing. The worst case scenario should be a dented plow and a few splattered kids. If an engineer wants to destroy his train and rails to try to save the kids, I guess that's an action that he'll have to attempt to justify later. Did you consider that the impending derailment and sliding/tumbling equipment may very well kill the pedestrians as well as the crew? Do the engineer and conductor have a right to preserve their own lives by ensuring that the train remains on the rails?

The kids aren't responsible for the response that makes the train leave the rails, as is no pedestrian. That judgement belongs to the man at the controls. Just like swerving for an anmial in the road.

Try telling your insurance company that you deserve compensation because you saved the animal even though you destroyed your car and injured yourself and others. They'd rather you hit the animal. I would hope that engineers would exercise the same judgement, especially with a train carrying hazardous materials.

Regards,

Mark

[GTWTD3]

I am employed by Amtrak as a train director at Dock Tower, in Newark, NJ on the NEC. First off, what these kids are doing is making my job harder. I have enough to worry about, moving trains, dealing with various track problems, switch problems, answering numerous phone calls, and then on top of that I have to warn every darn train about some idiot trespasser? I love my job, every minute of it, but it's a job to me. Once I'm done working, I may go watch trains, and then it's a completely different experience. You all seem to be trivializing what these kids are doing. Do you know what happens when the kids get hit? The crew screams emergency over the radio, and I immediately go into an adrenaline rush. Is the train intact? On the rail? Everyone allright? A ton of questions have to be answered by the crew, in the meantime I'm on the phone with the police, my dispatcher, and anyone else who happens to have my number. And then the railroad is shut down for a minimum of an hour, if it's a fataltiy, you can count on at least 2 or 3 hours. 2 or 3 hours of no trains moving, none. Which in turn leads to non-stop phone calls, when is this trian going to move, etc. Then you have to worry about recrewing trains. So not only is the crew dealing with the stress (and for those of you who say it's a risk of the job, that's true, but it's a completely avoidable risk, and that's what makes us railroaders mad), the dispatchers, the police, etc, are all dealing with it. Granted, before I worked on the railroad I trivialized a whole lot of stuff, but work on the railroad for a little while and you will see why Matt and I get angry about trespassers.

[markvz]

wkuhl, I respect your views as a railroad employee. I do not think that what they are doing is trivial, though I also don't think it's the travesty that some make it out to be. A closure of the line for a few hours and some investigaion is not trivial, though it's not really that bad either, considering that it's probably the worst case scenario, that is if the kids were dumb enough to stay on the cart until impact with the plow. You'd better believe that I'd take my chances in jumping before I'd let a train hit me. I don't wish hard times on you, but isn't dealing with this sort of thing part of your job? If it was always easy, they'd be paying some kid minimum wage to direct trains. I can only imagine how hectic things must get when something does happen. You have to admit, though, that you'd probably be doing something else if you couldn't handle dealing with this sort of thing occasionally. You really earn your pay when things start to go wrong.

I hadn't read the comments under the video before, but if what they're saying is true about monitoring a scanner, observing block signals and having the ability to clear the tracks (even in a tunnel) in 8 seconds, I'd say that they've prepared themselves well. They are much more aware of their surroundings than the common person walking down the tracks with a walkman or the hasty motorist trying to beat a train. They also seem much more considerate of the railroad property than even some railfans.

I'm really torn as to what's more entertaining; the video or the enraged keyboard railroad police getting excited about this. Something I've always noticed about railfans in general is the lengths they will go to act as if they have authority. It can get entertaining at times.

If you think that their actions will somehow enable law enforcement officers to prevent you from doing what is legal, you're pretty disillusioned. There is no backlash against law abiding citizens, and the offenders will never be able to repeat their offence if the worst-case scenario materializes. A true non-issue.