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pretty intresting video here, CSX train in Florida stalls and starts going backwards trying to get up a hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af7kkRA6CHw

Hard to understand why that train stalled. When the two lead engines went through the station, they didn't appear to be pulling hard at all. They seemed to be idleing along. I would have expected them to be leaning into the train, and they didn't appear to be. In any case, could I suggest three engines next time.

Ummm Okay I'm sure they were about to hit amtrak.... I would imagine if that was about to happen the crews would have dumped the train.

CAT345C wrote:Ummm Okay I'm sure they were about to hit amtrak.... I would imagine if that was about to happen the crews would have dumped the train.

They did big hole it at 6:52. They went back a considerable ways, so it's very possible they got close to Amtrak. The head end power was pulling hard when it went by.

As to why this happened, this reeks of poor train handling; pure speculation as I have no idea what is actually going on, but it seems the engineer may have "pissed his air away". After they "stalled" and started rolling back, the engineer applied the independant at 2:57 (surprised he didn't get a knuckle with that trick), then he applied the automatic around 3:15ish (GEE you mean the independant won't hold a loaded bulk train on a hill!?), kicked em off at 3:55 and they started rolling back again, then put some some air back through it at 4:10. He starts backing again around 5:10 but this time he's still got air set. A few times of doing that and you have no air left to set the brakes and that's probably what he realized and he plugged it.

Maybe Amtrak was stopped behind them a ways and was protecting their shove so they could get some steam going up the hill, but even then, piss poor job of shoving the train down the hill. But without facts, there's really no telling what happened; power problems, air problems from the start, who knows. And if Amtrak was right behind them, then how'd the "helpers" get to the rear of the train? Were they already there? Something fishy going on for sure, though.

Mr. Tops wrote:

CAT345C wrote:Ummm Okay I'm sure they were about to hit amtrak.... I would imagine if that was about to happen the crews would have dumped the train.

They did big hole it at 6:52. They went back a considerable ways, so it's very possible they got close to Amtrak. The head end power was pulling hard when it went by.

As to why this happened, this reeks of poor train handling; pure speculation as I have no idea what is actually going on, but it seems the engineer may have "pissed his air away". After they "stalled" and started rolling back, the engineer applied the independant at 2:57 (surprised he didn't get a knuckle with that trick), then he applied the automatic around 3:15ish (GEE you mean the independant won't hold a loaded bulk train on a hill!?), kicked em off at 3:55 and they started rolling back again, then put some some air back through it at 4:10. He starts backing again around 5:10 but this time he's still got air set. A few times of doing that and you have no air left to set the brakes and that's probably what he realized and he plugged it.

Maybe Amtrak was stopped behind them a ways and was protecting their shove so they could get some steam going up the hill, but even then, piss poor job of shoving the train down the hill. But without facts, there's really no telling what happened; power problems, air problems from the start, who knows. And if Amtrak was right behind them, then how'd the "helpers" get to the rear of the train? Were they already there? Something fishy going on for sure, though.

I didn't give it the time of day after a few minutes with that idiot pointing and the stupid screen prompts. The part that I had watched seem like they stopped. I've never seen slack run in like that every time I've had a train stall because of tonnage. But then again I work with some very seasoned engineers who can handle any kind of train thrown at them.

CAT345C wrote:I didn't give it the time of day after a few minutes with that idiot pointing and the stupid screen prompts.

What!? That is the best part of the video!!

Something just didn't look right about the whole thing, especially that slack running in. Maybe he stopped for some other reason, and couldn't get going again.

Mr. Tops wrote: As to why this happened, this reeks of poor train handling; pure speculation as I have no idea what is actually going on, but it seems the engineer may have "pissed his air away". After they "stalled" and started rolling back, the engineer applied the independant at 2:57 (surprised he didn't get a knuckle with that trick), then he applied the automatic around 3:15ish (GEE you mean the independant won't hold a loaded bulk train on a hill!?), kicked em off at 3:55 and they started rolling back again, then put some some air back through it at 4:10. He starts backing again around 5:10 but this time he's still got air set. A few times of doing that and you have no air left to set the brakes and that's probably what he realized and he plugged it.

There is a way of using the air such that when you 'kick' it off, it causes each car to release one at a time. With the 'quick release' feature on modern freight cars, as soon as the air jumps just a little bit all the cars will start to release at the same time. I'd have to look at my train handling book, but it was talked about in there. Anyway, by getting the cars to release one at a time, with the slack bunched, you're not trying to start the entire train all at once, but rather one car at a time. IIRC, it involved going into supression to bleed off a little bit extra air, and then when you released the brakes, that 'took away' the quick release ability of the cars. So, if he had tried this, then he would have been 'out of air' and started rolling backwards if the train stalled again. The flip side is if you're pulling too hard, you'll end up getting a knuckle because the rear of the train hasn't released.

We do this with our hump cuts trying to get heavy cuts started. Brakes on the far end of it, and downhill towards them. Slack back a bit to bunch the slack, and then you're only starting a couple cars at a time, instead of 7300' of train and 10,000+ tons. Even a car length of slack can make the difference between pulling a cut out, or stalling every time.

Practice Safe CSX