What-if? - Mack Bridge

Any historical questions can be posted here. Answers would certainly help as well :)
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dmitzel
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

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Got this letter from the chief engineer for the Bridge Authority, regarding early plans for a joint rail-highway Mackinac crossing:
Kim Nowack Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:56 AM
To: dan.mitzel
Dear Mr. Mitzel, Recently, you sent the following question to the Mackinac Bridge web site:

"I am performing some historical research on the Straits crossing. Were the early plans to include a railroad crossing on the lower level of the span ever saved for historical purposes? Thank you. R, Dan Mitzel, Oxford, MI"

The "Report on a Proposed Crossing for the Straits of Mackinac" dated 1940 had the following comment about adding rail to the bridge: " A combined railway and highway bridge is not recommended as the topographic and geologic conditions require the construction of long span suspension bridges. Suspension bridges, on account of their flexibility, would require special operating equipment with restricted loads in order to negotiate the heavy grades. The long spans designed to carry the railway loadings, even though restricted, would require an additional investment in the crossing far in excess of any amount that could be amortized by reasonable rental charges." (this comment refers to bridges in the plural because it recommended 2 suspension bridges be used to span the straits.)

The "Report on Proposed Mackinac Straits Bridge" dated 1951 investigated the feasibility of adding a rail line to the bridge. They estimated that the "additional cost for provision of a single-track railway on this bridge is $60,000,000...." This option was never carried forward.

There were no drawings showing rail tracks on the bridge in either report. There may be conceptual drawings of the rail track option somewhere, but I don't believe these were developed further.

I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have and thank you for your interest in the Mackinac Bridge,

Kim

Ms. Kim Nowack, P.E.
Chief Engineer, Mackinac Bridge Authority
Wouldn't that have made a true, Mighty Mac - a dual-level, two-bridge span all that way over open water. Wow... would've been cool to this day, and certainly would have made a thru all-rail routing between N. Wisconsin and points in the lower peninsula more than viable. An outer, Outer bypass around that great rail hairball known as Chicago - CN would have had nothing on it, even with the EJ&E purchase.

Not being Warren Buffett by any means, I too have been having model railroad empire building thoughts, paper or otherwise, especially now that model railroad construction season is fast approaching. Perhaps a reincarnation of the Michigan Central, as a modern-day subsidiary of the WC Ltd. or a even-more latter day version of the Detroit, Mackinac and Marquette Railroad? Yeah, I sort of like the latter - mostly because the reporting marks (DM&M, AAR code DMM) match my initials.

Hmmm... maybe I need to start patching some 1:87 scale (former secondhand) BN and CNW equipment and rolling stock with DMM marks. Anyway, I do plan on continuing my correspondence with Ms. Nowack to see if we can locate any conceptual drawings on the bridge itself and/or the railway approaches on each end. It is easy to see how the PRR and NYC might have been aligned with the southern approach, but considering the bluffs on the St. Ignace side not so easy as the DSS&A was concerned. In the interim enjoy the letter.
D.M. Mitzel
Div. 8-NCR-NMRA
Oxford, Mich.

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MIGN-Todd
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

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Thank you very much for posting that. 60mil huh? Take a check?
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MSchwiebert
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

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Wonder what 60 million in 1940's/50's dollars translates to in todays "money"? The letter does confirm my earlier posting that said that suspension bridges aren't the most suitable design for rail use. If the rail proposal couldn't earn a suitable ROI in the regulated days (where obscure interchange points/gateways were common) there is little doubt that it would not today either. As for avoiding Chicago, look at the existing "Chicago bypass" routes (NS's Kankakee line & the TP&W aren't necessarly teeming with traffic....

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AARR
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

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MSchwiebert wrote:As for avoiding Chicago, look at the existing "Chicago bypass" routes (NS's Kankakee line & the TP&W aren't necessarly teeming with traffic....
Try as they may to avoid Chicago, railroads end up right back in there trying to fight their way through as fast as fast can be. All other routes have ended unsuccessfully. We'll see how CN's EJ&E route does.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

hoborich
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

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That bridge does a lot of swaying and flexing in high winds. Sometimes they even close it for a while. No telling what that would do to railroad tracks on the bridge. Also a derailment on the bridge might be a huge problem. Truck speed limits on the bridge are 20mph. Not sure if it's because of their weight, or just for safety.
Also the land masses on either side of the Straits tend to funnel the winds mostly out of the west, and broadside to the bridge. A long freight train would present a much greater wind load broadside to the bridge,than the current semi trucks spaced a couple hundred feet apart.
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dmitzel
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Re: What-if? - Mack Bridge

Unread post by dmitzel »

hoborich wrote:That bridge does a lot of swaying and flexing in high winds. Sometimes they even close it for a while. No telling what that would do to railroad tracks on the bridge. Also a derailment on the bridge might be a huge problem. Truck speed limits on the bridge are 20mph. Not sure if it's because of their weight, or just for safety.
Also the land masses on either side of the Straits tend to funnel the winds mostly out of the west, and broadside to the bridge. A long freight train would present a much greater wind load broadside to the bridge,than the current semi trucks spaced a couple hundred feet apart.
I think it's safe to say if the rail option had come to fruition the Mack Bridge would look pretty different than how it was eventually built as an all-highway span. Anyway, it's all speculation unless some engineering or initial conceptual drawing should surface. Regardless, the Authority chief engineer has promised to get back to me with additional information, so I'll post what comes of that for the group to share.
D.M. Mitzel
Div. 8-NCR-NMRA
Oxford, Mich.

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