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I'd like to know, since I've started modeling in N scale the St. Louis line around Athens, OH in 1981, how long would the trailer trains be on average? I've got 4 cars so far, and I know that isn't enough.

Pie39 wrote:I'd like to know, since I've started modeling in N scale the St. Louis line around Athens, OH in 1981, how long would the trailer trains be on average? I've got 4 cars so far, and I know that isn't enough.

Make them proportionate to the size of the layout. My layout is/will be full basement size, so my trailer trains will be around 20 (89' cars) cars long. If you are doing say, bedroom size, then 4 or 5 cars may be enough.

BnOEngr wrote:

Pie39 wrote:I'd like to know, since I've started modeling in N scale the St. Louis line around Athens, OH in 1981, how long would the trailer trains be on average? I've got 4 cars so far, and I know that isn't enough.

Make them proportionate to the size of the layout. My layout is/will be full basement size, so my trailer trains will be around 20 (89' cars) cars long. If you are doing say, bedroom size, then 4 or 5 cars may be enough.

That's what I like to hear! I'll get a couple more and call it good, keeping in mind these were doubleheaded with geeps most of the time.

Pie39: Right now there are some excellant 89' or 85' TOFC flatcars availiable from Atlas, Trainworx and BLMA Models. Well detailed, precise painting and lettering, body-mounted knuckle couplers and metal wheels. I've got several of each brand; i'm building a C&O TOFC train to run on the C&O Chicago Division in Indiana on my N-Scale layout. Berk

"selective compression" is always a good bet. Also keep in mind what the siding lengths were along the line. The setting sounds like a good modeling choice, I was an OU student from 1988-91 so I got to see the line in town in it's "mothballed" state & always thought it would have been cool to see a pig train work it's way through campus.

Typical train lengths on these van trains were relatively short, anywhere from about 12-15 ttx cars, but that includes everything, singles, triples, and 5-well cars. Probably 30-40 total piggybacks at best.

No well cars there, the Ohio division was closed/being abandoned before they saw widespread use. When those trains were taken off the Ohio division and turned south at Deshler, they ran quite long with predominantly "conventional" (89' ft.) TTX flats. One would also occasionally see the "short flats" that were converted from 50' boxcars, and the 2 axled front runner flats too.

bdconrail29 wrote:Typical train lengths on these van trains were relatively short, anywhere from about 12-15 ttx cars, but that includes everything, singles, triples, and 5-well cars. Probably 30-40 total piggybacks at best.

MSchwiebert wrote:No well cars there, the Ohio division was closed/being abandoned before they saw widespread use. When those trains were taken off the Ohio division and turned south at Deshler, they ran quite long with predominantly "conventional" (89' ft.) TTX flats. One would also occasionally see the "short flats" that were converted from 50' boxcars, and the 2 axled front runner flats too.

bdconrail29 wrote:Typical train lengths on these van trains were relatively short, anywhere from about 12-15 ttx cars, but that includes everything, singles, triples, and 5-well cars. Probably 30-40 total piggybacks at best.

I was just going off the photos I have of the St. Louis van trains, and all of them the train is pretty short.

I can't believe it's been almost thirty years now since the trailer jets graced the Ohio Div. Going off my memory (of an 8 to 10 yr old at the time) most of the trains were indeed 12 to 15 cars. Big train would be 20 to 25 cars. These were some of the first to run without a caboose on the line. Eastbounds usually seemed to be longer than the westbound. On the days two eastbounds ran the first (8 to 9 am) would be the longest with at least a couple of locos. Second would always be short ten 8 to 12 cars and usually just one loco. You could get away adding a couple of autoracks to the front of the train if you're keeping to the '81 time frame.

Trailer wise there usually quite a few 20 ft containers on chassis and 45 ft SP and ICG trailers.

midland sub wrote:I can't believe it's been almost thirty years now since the trailer jets graced the Ohio Div. Going off my memory (of an 8 to 10 yr old at the time) most of the trains were indeed 12 to 15 cars. Big train would be 20 to 25 cars. These were some of the first to run without a caboose on the line. Eastbounds usually seemed to be longer than the westbound. On the days two eastbounds ran the first (8 to 9 am) would be the longest with at least a couple of locos. Second would always be short ten 8 to 12 cars and usually just one loco. You could get away adding a couple of autoracks to the front of the train if you're keeping to the '81 time frame.

Trailer wise there usually quite a few 20 ft containers on chassis and 45 ft SP and ICG trailers.

Did CR get the business? I remember when they ran to Deshler, if memory serves they were longer then and were Q133/134? Thanks.

Why was the B&O St. Louis line abandoned?

JStryker722 wrote:Why was the B&O St. Louis line abandoned?

Traffic decline/rationalization. There was really no reason they couldn't run the B&O Chicago line to Deshler, then turn south there to head to Cincy, then over to St. Louis. Same thing CR did with the Panhandle and Fort Wayne Line west of Crestline.

bdconrail29 wrote:

JStryker722 wrote:Why was the B&O St. Louis line abandoned?

Traffic decline/rationalization. There was really no reason they couldn't run the B&O Chicago line to Deshler, then turn south there to head to Cincy, then over to St. Louis. Same thing CR did with the Panhandle and Fort Wayne Line west of Crestline.

I heard they lost a lot of time doing that. I'm an Athens local, and I was born way too late for that line. But the history interests me, so I'm modeling it.

midland sub wrote:I can't believe it's been almost thirty years now since the trailer jets graced the Ohio Div. Going off my memory (of an 8 to 10 yr old at the time) most of the trains were indeed 12 to 15 cars. Big train would be 20 to 25 cars. These were some of the first to run without a caboose on the line. Eastbounds usually seemed to be longer than the westbound. On the days two eastbounds ran the first (8 to 9 am) would be the longest with at least a couple of locos. Second would always be short ten 8 to 12 cars and usually just one loco. You could get away adding a couple of autoracks to the front of the train if you're keeping to the '81 time frame.

Trailer wise there usually quite a few 20 ft containers on chassis and 45 ft SP and ICG trailers.

I can do a 10 car train. I remember seeing lots of pictures of 2 geeps on those, would those be the longer ones? And would they have a caboose?

In last year or so did they not use a caboose. You're safe using a caboose especially for the 1981 time era.

As far as EMD units are concerned, Geeps are 4 axle and the SDs ( like the iconic SD40-2s ) are 6 axle units and yes a longer train but still lighter than a manifest freight would have 2 Geeps for 2 reasons: To get up to speed/maintain speed more easily as TOFC/COFC/Interdomal is time sensitive and to avoid needing turning facilities for faster motive power turnaround times,especially on main lines where units used on intermodal runs often get sent on another TOFC/COFC/Intermodal train headed out from the same distanting intermodal terminal. Just makes better use out of motive power.

JStryker722 wrote:As far as EMD units are concerned, Geeps are 4 axle and the SDs ( like the iconic SD40-2s ) are 6 axle units.

Trust me, I know my EMD

It would have been interesting to see what kind of rate CSX had to give to get trailers on the 133's & 134's that ran the "long way". I can't imagine they made any money - but I remember them consistently being a mile plus long when they turned the corner at Deshler.
Some other things to consider regarding the abandonment of the Ohio division,
1. at the time CSX was viewed as a poorly performing company by the investment community, along with the acceleration of the full consolidation of CSX operations (the initial plan was to keep Chessie and Seaboard seperate as components of the CSX parent corporation) a wave of line rationalizations, like the Ohio Division, the C&O of Indiana, the severing of the Monon south end, etc. were carried out in an effort to get to a leaner more profitable entity.
2. The Chessie side at that time was still dominated by leadership that saw bulk commodities and manifest business is the core, money making business to go after. Intermodal was still viewed (and to a degree was probably true) as growing only by taking freight out of boxcars - not off the highway.
3. The earlier abandonment of the Clarksburg/Parkersburg portion of the line really ended the viability of the complete line from Cumberland to St. Louis.
4. At some point, more comprehensive clearance related repairs/upgrades would have had to be carried out to make the line usable for enclosed auto racks and double stacks as well.

While I lament not seeing freight make the sharp curve by Morton Hall, I also understand what factors were in place at the time when things were shut down.

bdconrail29 wrote:

JStryker722 wrote:Why was the B&O St. Louis line abandoned?

Traffic decline/rationalization. There was really no reason they couldn't run the B&O Chicago line to Deshler, then turn south there to head to Cincy, then over to St. Louis. Same thing CR did with the Panhandle and Fort Wayne Line west of Crestline.

Pie39:Your the one who said " I saw some with 2 Geeps,are those the longer ones? "..I didn't know if you meant the difference in motive power or why you would see 2 locomotives on a comparatively short version of a longer interdomal train,so I answered both lol

Anyone have pictures of the trailer trains on the line?