two students struck by train.

[conrailfan]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?secti ... id=7173652

[MDH]

Detailed "Toledo Blade" article:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... 5936251501

I think the train stopped short of Holloway Rd at 297 and as soon as they could move it the pulled it past the road to clear up the crossing signals there. Later (when I came by) they backed it up to the road to offload passengers needing to make connections with the remaining ones staying on board. Here's a shot right before they backed up:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307268

And another shot offloading passengers:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307270

After letting 24M, 20E and 18A by while unloading on the north side of the tracks they finally released the Capitol to continue on to Chicago:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307267

Michael

[Chaser945]

Friend of mine was on that train, she didn't make it into Waterloo until 1:30 pm.... They also had to stop in cumberland Md. for equipment malfunction.

[railohio]

dti407 and I shot 29 in Edgerton about five minutes before 1:00. Based on MDH's report of its leaving Holland I figure it was doing track speed the entire way west. Of course, with nothing ahead of it all the way to Elkhart there wasn't any reason to dog it.

[ConrailForever]

All very interesting. Hopefully it'll teach a few people around there NOT to try to beat a train. Also, I can't help but pity those who have commented on reports online of the incident who cry out for a pedestrian overpass of sorts. Before investing a million dollars in an overpass, teach your kids a thing or two about trying to beat trains.

[MSchwiebert]

Plans have been in place for almost a decade to replace that at-grade crossing with an underpass, but lack of funding has been the hold up. I'd look for that to change now. That's usually the way things like that work.

[railohio]

The 11 o'clock news on the ABC affiliate in Toledo did a short story on peoples' reactions to the incident last night. One guy believes trains should have to obey the 20mph limit cars do in school zones at restricted hours. Seems pretty simple to me, however, to not cross the tracks when the gates are down.

[MDH]

The 11 o'clock news on the ABC affiliate in Toledo did a short story on peoples' reactions to the incident last night. One guy believes trains should have to obey the 20mph limit cars do in school zones at restricted hours. Seems pretty simple to me, however, to not cross the tracks when the gates are down.

Wonder if that guy would appreciate having it pointed out that going 20mph would probably aggravate the situation - making more kids "take the risk" because it would take so f'ng long for trains to roll by - and a trip & fall while running in front of a 20mph train is just as fatal as being splatted by a 79mph Amtrak...

[AARR]

Wonder if that guy would appreciate having it pointed out that going 20mph would probably aggravate the situation - making more kids "take the risk" because it would take so f'ng long for trains to roll by - and a trip & fall while running in front of a 20mph train is just as fatal as being splatted by a 79mph Amtrak...

I don't know about studies on trains but as much as I hate to admit it when automobile speed limits are reduced accidents go down, too.

[MDH]

Wonder if that guy would appreciate having it pointed out that going 20mph would probably aggravate the situation - making more kids "take the risk" because it would take so f'ng long for trains to roll by - and a trip & fall while running in front of a 20mph train is just as fatal as being splatted by a 79mph Amtrak...

I don't know about studies on trains but as much as I hate to admit it when automobile speed limits are reduced accidents go down, too.

I'm still gonna bet it's an "apples & oranges" difference - a car going 20 can stop/dodge a kid running out in the street much better than a car going 45. A train going 20 can't stop quick enough or swerve if a kid dashes in front - and the kid has much more reason to try if they know they'll be stuck for a "long time" waiting on a slow train...

[AARR]

I'm still gonna bet it's an "apples & oranges" difference - a car going 20 can stop/dodge a kid running out in the street much better than a car going 45. A train going 20 can't stop quick enough or swerve if a kid dashes in front - and the kid has much more reason to try if they know they'll be stuck for a "long time" waiting on a slow train...

You're right, I'm not sure cars and trains can be compared in this matter. Nevertheless, I'm not opposed to trains slowing down in urban areas. This will give kids an opportunity to hop and have a joy ride

[MDH]

You're right, I'm not sure cars and trains can be compared in this matter. Nevertheless, I'm not opposed to trains slowing down in urban areas. This will give kids an opportunity to hop and have a joy ride

Did you see that fine example of just that in the pages of "Trains" magazine with the two page spread of kids in Chicago?

[AARR]

Did you see that fine example of just that in the pages of "Trains" magazine with the two page spread of kids in Chicago?

Yes, that's where i got the idea

[ConrailForever]

I say vamp up trackspeed to 70 in cities and towns where track conditions are appropriate, put up quad crossings and pedestrian crossings and leave the rest to other peoples' common sense.

[Shorthaul]

I say vamp up track speed to 70 in cities and towns where track conditions are appropriate, put up quad crossings and pedestrian crossings and leave the rest to other peoples' common sense.

Good idea. That's how the rest of the world does it, and it seems like they have fewer mishaps than we do in the USA.

[MDH]

I say vamp up track speed to 70 in cities and towns where track conditions are appropriate, put up quad crossings and pedestrian crossings and leave the rest to other peoples' common sense.

Good idea. That's how the rest of the world does it, and it seems like they have fewer mishaps than we do in the USA.

Yeah - but who's gonna pay for it...

[Shorthaul]

I say vamp up track speed to 70 in cities and towns where track conditions are appropriate, put up quad crossings and pedestrian crossings and leave the rest to other peoples' common sense.

Good idea. That's how the rest of the world does it, and it seems like they have fewer mishaps than we do in the USA.

Yeah - but who's gonna pay for it...

I think that we should just eliminate all of the speed restrictions for grade crossings. Forget all of the upgrades, teach americans some responsibility. Automate or eliminate all of the non-automated crossings, remove all of the whistle posts, and let natural selection weed the idiots out of society. It reduces the number of people trying to "beat the train", reduces welfare costs, and keeps class sizes smaller.

[Y@]

Amen.

[MSchwiebert]

While we're at it - let's eliminate all traffic rules on the highways too... those pesky red lights and stop signs just waste energy while wating for traffic to clear.
I never understood the outrage of the train watching community when there's a grade crossing accident, is there similar outrage when a teenager runs a stop sign and t-bones a kenworth? surely too that "weeds out the pool" or whatever.

As for Europe being "more aware" to the risks, keep in mind that most communities in Europe pre-dated the railroad era, so when the railroad did come they could choose routings that lessened the opportunities for pedestrian incidents. Additionally the right of ways in Europe are much more fenced in than here in the states. Conversely most communities in the US (especially once you get out of the northeast) were created when the railroad involved was put down, so the communities grew up around the railroad so "opportunities" for incidents are greater as the rail lines are much more interwoven into the day to day activities of the people in the towns the tracks go through.

Even with all the extra efforts that European countries place to prevent train/pedestrian accidents - they still happen.
Here's a link for the occurances in England http://www.trackoff.org/Statistics.aspx from 2003 to 2008.
(by the way, England is the size of Alabama and has just over 10,000 miles of track ) If England's accident rate is extrapolated to the US rail system - 47 tresspass incidents in 2008 over 10,000 miles of track, extrapolated to 200,000 miles of Railroad in the USA = 940 deaths. For what it's worth the stats page on http://www.oli.org/statistics/USDOTstats_trespass.htm has the US figure in 2008 at 452.