Protec expanding in Leipsic

[redside20]

http://www.thecourier.com/Issues/2010/M ... Mar,20&c=n
So who besides Norfolk Southern is going to get in on this?

[thomas]

the only other railroads in the area is CSX & IORY, with IORY the least likly ....

[MSchwiebert]

Both NS and CSX have served Pro-Tec since it opened, I do not expect that to change with the expansion coming on line.

[midland sub]

There's a chance the IORY might be getting in on the traffic for the expansion. This might turn into a very, very interesting traffic source for all 3 lines. Especially if the details match up to a very interesting rumor that's quietly been passed around lately (that I'm not going to share- so don't ask).

[MSchwiebert]

Well for the I&O to get on board, they better get going on their turnout to connect to the "Leipsic Terminal" trackage (and if they do, some sort of agreement would have to be worked out to get access to the plant itself with either CSX or NS). As for potential traffic sources/destinations I'm not scared to throw up a few "logical" guesses to see what sticks

1. Steel from Delta shipped to Leipsic for coating: Not particularly likely (less than 20%) Pro-Tec is a joint venture between US Steel and Kobe Steel so I can't see them "looking outside the family" for a material source.

2. Coated steel from Leipsic shipped to the Honda plant in Indiana: much more likely than #1 (I'll say 50/50) considering that one of the "drivers" for the new steel formula that the addition would produce is the automotive industry, and if Honda is an Pro-Tec customer already (I'm guessing that they are) this would be a way to get the new product while keeping domestic content on their cars at a high level. Could the I&O have a better single line rate (once they figure out how to get access to the plant) than a CSX to Cincinnati then interchange to RailAmerica rate? Perhaps.

3. Coated steel from Leipsic shipped to Auto Alliance in Flat Rock: I'd place that somewhere between 1 and 2, the access questions still exist, and there's CN involvement and I don't know if Ford/AutoAlliance is a current Pro-Tec customer or not.

I'm sure that there's other possibilities for the traffic - but RailAmerica still has to get access to the plant, which is something they do not currently have.

[midland sub]

You're forgetting about the big muddy thing that tends to overflow it's banks this time of the year around Cincy.

[MSchwiebert]

I did give that some thought - similar to the pig iron for Delta, but I couldn't think of a source for inbound steel that would necissitate the barging in, nor an outbound destination for the coated product - not to say that it's not out there (to me South America would be the only place where it would make 'sense' to do the rail/barge/freighter transloads)though.

[Loco_Engr]

CBT (Cincinnati Bulk Terminal) has, in the past, received cars of sheet steel from Northstar in Delta. I don't remember how many or who they were for, but it was quite a few cars.

I still don't see CSX or NS allowed the IORY access to Protec, at least not where the plant is now.

[CSX_CO]

CBT (Cincinnati Bulk Terminal) has, in the past, received cars of sheet steel from Northstar in Delta. I don't remember how many or who they were for, but it was quite a few cars.

I still don't see CSX or NS allowed the IORY access to Protec, at least not where the plant is now.

It could be that part of the agreement for site placement was access to three railroads. NUCOR in Crawfordsville, IN was only directly served by Conrail and CSX (at the time of construction), but the agreement allowed NS to come down from Lafayette via the CSX to access the facility. It could be a similar agreement is in place at Protec, but there has never been a need to exercise it. I'm sure I&O could secure rights from where the I&O comes off the B&O just south of Leipsic and run a job up there from Lima and in via the CSX side, rather than having to build their own connection into the plant, and associated interlocking costs of such a project.

Practice Safe CSX

[midland sub]

CSX_CO hit it right on the head about the I&O and access to the Pro-tech plant and whatever this new project might be. Throw the I&O out of the picture (which I probably wouldn't just yet), and both CSX and NS should be very, very happy if and when it comes together. Think of a separate operation from the current Pro-tech plant.

Since I'm not familiar with "Lipstick" what would it take for the I&O to access the Pro-tech property other than using CSX. I remember seeing a photo at Trainorders of the I&O's current track to nowhere to the property, but that really doesn't mean anything to me.

[railohio]

Since I'm not familiar with "Lipstick" what would it take for the I&O to access the Pro-tech property other than using CSX. I remember seeing a photo at Trainorders of the I&O's current track to nowhere to the property, but that really doesn't mean anything to me.

There is a track parallel to and north of the Norfolk Southern that runs from the I&O to the ethanol plant on the east side of the CSX main. To access Protec now that would need to be extended across the CSX mainline and siding on a diamond or crossovers or tied into the Norfolk Southern line to use their diamond and wye into the facility.

Of course, if Protec is building a separate facility in town then it could be located in the area between all the railroads, just like the ethanol plant is now, and solve all the access problems.

[PAT.C]

IS THE TRACK CONNECTED TO THE I&O NOW ?
LAST TIME I WAS IN LIPSTICK, IT ENDED AT THE STREET. GOOGLE SHOWS IT CROSSING THE STREET WITHOUT SIGNALS OR CROSSBUCKS.

[MSchwiebert]

Using the under construction "connection track" would not require building across the CSX as it connects into CSX at the north end of the Poet ethanol plant trackage. CSX would still have to grant access to Protec as their facility is on the east side of the CSX (while Poet is on the west). As for any new facility going in - it'd be in the northeast quadrant of the CSX/NS junction too as they already own 1200 acres over there and are only using a small portion of it.

for those not familiar with the area, this link shows the general 'lay of the land'
http://ohio.cciconstellation.net/media/ ... 009001.jpg

The red line is the Leipsic Community Railroad (the 'future rail' section has not been built yet) which does connect to CSX near the Poet plant. This map also shows all the land around Pro-Tec that they currently own - all of which is east of the CSX.

[CSX_CO]

CSX_CO hit it right on the head about the I&O and access to the Pro-tech plant and whatever this new project might be. Throw the I&O out of the picture (which I probably wouldn't just yet), and both CSX and NS should be very, very happy if and when it comes together. Think of a separate operation from the current Pro-tech plant.

I'd heard a rumor of a new 'mini-mill' coming on-line on the CSX 'in the midwest', but hadn't heard of any projects being announced in the last year or so. This was before the economy took a nose dive. Protec thinking of expanding to actually making steel at their facility?

Practice Safe CSX

[MSchwiebert]

Scuttlebutt around Leipsic is that there is someone else looking at locating there in addition to the Pro-Tec expansion but it's not certain who it is or what they do.

[railohio]

There was a rumour last summer that some arm of Nestle wanted to build in Leipsic. Any truth to that?

[Loco_Engr]

As far as I know, the "track to nowhere" is owned by the Port Authority in Leipsic (not sure of the name of the PA). Adding the switch and connecting to it would be I&O's responsibility, I believe. From what I've heard, though, the amount of traffic in & out of Poet right now wouldn't justify the expense.

[MSchwiebert]

Agreed, while Poet has been a boon for area farmers with the price premium that they pay for corn, it has actually caused rail business for the area to decrease. Hamler elevator hasn't loaded hardly any unit grain trains of corn for Carolina hog farmers (shipped via CSX) since Poet has opened, same with Deshler Farmers Elevator's Custar OH facility. The distillers grain goes out of Poet via rail, but the ethanol is shipped via truck.

[AARR]

Agreed, while Poet has been a boon for area farmers with the price premium that they pay for corn, it has actually caused rail business for the area to decrease...The distillers grain goes out of Poet via rail, but the ethanol is shipped via truck.

To determine if this is true we'd need the number of cars shipped from elevators who provide corn pre-POET and post-POET. Then, the number of rail cars POET receives/ships.

[midland sub]

The IORY figures they'll lose somewhere around a third to half or more of the grain traffic moving on the Midland due to Valero. They handed over 130 plus grain trains to CSX last year. It just depends on how many farmers switch to corn versus soy beans. Figure an ethanol plant will draw almost all of the local corn crop in a 50 radius. Hamler and the Deshler operation won't see much if any of the corn crop unless it's a bumper year. Even then I would suspect that would end up at POET.