Breaking News:Amtrak Accident in Eaton County

[Larry G]

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/Upda ... 18278.html Ch 10's video is up now with a reporter on the scene last night.

[Larry G]

Don't normally go into speculation on these things but from what I have observed for years at this location here are some thoughts about this one...

Millet Hwy at this location is really a service drive only for the Meijer Warehouse since the road was cut when the buildings were put up. Trains that enter the old Snow Road GTW yard go very slowly through here and often stop. Which makes me think that employees of the warehouse take risks to avoid being 'trapped' going and coming from work. My speculation is that the driver decided to take the chance and lost to avoid this situation above and at night failed to correctly judge the speed of the passenger train coming. Down at Mt Hope crossing on the other side of this yard you will see the same thing from time to time of cars going around the gates too trying to avoid slow movers or stopped for switching trains.....
Just my two cents worth.

[GHRailFan]

Nope, just got bored, decided to take a ride, only cost me $15 for the round trip from East Lansing to Chicago and back. I'll let the local media have their go at it and then I'll relate what happened after hearing the Engineer talking to the Dispatcher, talking to the crew, ect.

Lansing State Journal reports that the Chicago to Port Huron train was a westbound. I suppose if they put a picture of the train it would be an CN train pulling boxcars. (SW MI's Herald Palladium did that with a story about Amtrak about 20 yrs ago...they had a picture of a CSX freight train and the caption said it was an Amtrak passenger train. ..gotta love the media )

Chicago to Port Huron is westbound?? When did Chicago move east??? Love the media....

I know that reporter!!!! I have been waiting so long for an excuse to post this video somewhere of my friend getting lost between Chicago and Grand Haven in Lake Michigan! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_OryOtsec

[J T]

I know that reporter!!!! I have been waiting so long for an excuse to post this video somewhere of my friend getting lost between Chicago and Grand Haven in Lake Michigan! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_OryOtsec

How can you get lost on Lake Michigan if you have a compass? Some people amaze me.

[12Bridge]

Boating stupidity is another entire world of stupidness. Most people have no business in a boat.

[Hogger1225]

OK, here 's the long version.

Here is my recollection of what happened last night, 02/16/12, approximately 9:10-9:15 pm.

I was riding train #364, Eastbound, from Chicago to East Lansing. I was riding in the third coach from the lead unit. The coach was empty, except for the train crew having set up their work station, and they were all performing duties towards the rear of the train, so I was by myself at the time. I was watching a moving map display on my cell phone at the time. I saw that we were approaching Millet Hwy and I could hear that the Engineer was sounding the air horns for the crossing. Just at the tail end of the last "long" of the two longs, a short, and a long, I felt a very distinct bump and at the same time the brakes went into emergency, and I knew that we had hit something. A split-second later I heard the Engineer put the Emergency call out over the radio.

The first thing the train dispatcher asked after hearing the initial report was if the crew was alright. Then he asked if the passengers were OK. As far as anyone could tell at the time, the passengers were fine, turns out there was a lady who was having something going on unrelated to the collision. Then the dispatcher asked if there were any fatalities related to the vehicle struck. It was unknown yet but pretty obvious. The train was going 65 according to the crew, in response to a question asked later by the dispatcher. When the dispatcher asked the Engineer if the vehicle was stopped on the crossing or moving, the Engineer replied that the vehicle was moving, from south to north, using railroad timetable direction, the track is listed in the timetable as East and West so any road crossing it would be referred to as northward or southward for reference, I.E. "Car came from the south side", or the gate on the north side" (car was traveling east to west compass direction) "he was flying". Bad thing about that crossing is the Soldan's Feed Store-Elevator is right there on the north side of the tracks, west of the crossing. No visibility for a driver until he gets right at the tracks. On the other hand, an Engineer has a pretty clear view of the crossing approaching it and when the dispatcher asked if the crossing protection was working the Engineer stated that it was, the gates were down.

The dispatcher then asked if there was any damage to the locomotive, Engineer stated he didn't think so but he had not yet made a ground inspection. Right after that the Engineer noticed smoke coming up from in front of the engine and said he was getting out to check. He then came back on the radio shortly afterwards and said that the vehicle was still wrapped around the front of the engine. It was decided that the HEP would be shut down as the lead unit was supplying the HEP at the time and in case anybody had to get underneath the equipment, it would be on the safe side to shut down the HEP. Shorty afterward it was decided to completely shut down the lead locomotive due to a fuel leak, I'm not sure if it was diesel fuel from the locomotive or gas from the struck vehicle. The crew then tried, (along with dealing with the passengers and other matters related) to get the HEP started from the rear unit. It took them at least 20 minutes or more to get it going. There was a little trouble earlier in the trip at Dowagiac when they tried to get the HEP going from the rear unit due to some sort of alarm but they couldn't get it going. They finally got it at Millet Hwy after walking the train several times. The HEP cables were disconnected between the lead unit and first coach and short-looped on the front end of the first coach.

Now, what to do with the passengers. Believe it or not, there were a few passengers who were getting upset that they weren't being let outside to smoke. The crew finally decided to let those addicts (you can tell I'm a non-smoker! LOL!) smoke in the first coach in the train. The first three coaches were empty, being on the train in anticipation of heavy passenger loads today. They understandably didn't want to let the people off the train in the dark, at the west end of an active rail yard and an active main on one side of the train and a ditch on the other side. Then there were people who wanted to get off and walk back to Millet Hwy and friends pick them up. What finally happened was that there were school buses called to pick up the East Lansing passengers and take them to the East Lansing station, not that far, and Amtrak officials were supposedly working as fast as they could to get regular long-haul buses for the rest of the passengers. At first they were thinking of busing everybody to East Lansing but that station closes up at 3:30pm every day. Better to keep them on the train where they could stay warm.

During all of this the emergency responders were still dealing with the situation at the head end of the train and walking the tracks on both sides looking for any other possible people that might have been in the vehicle. The crew wasn't allowed to separate the rest of the train from the lead unit so the train could be pulled back to Millet Hwy to make bus loading easier and safer for the passengers and crew. The investigation was still ongoing at the head end. About the only hitch was that one of the Firemen-responders was telling people on the train that everybody was going to be bussed off the train to East Lansing, but that decision had been changed after he was told. I had heard over the radio that they were just busing the East Lansing passengers in the school buses and as I was helping a couple with a ton of baggage just happened to ask them where they were going. They said Flint and then I said we'd better double check, asked a crew member and he verified that it was just East Lansing passengers, so they had to do a little bit of back-tracking and get people back on the train, which didn't take very long, they got that rectified quickly.

All in all, I think the situation was handled extremely well by all crew members and responders involved, crew even keep the passengers informed over the PA system, and offered prayers to the person(s) in the vehicle. I don't know the final outcome of how and when the rest of the passengers were transported because I left with the batch of school buses for East Lansing. I have read from another source that the train finally left Lansing around 4:15am.

How's that?

I've made a few spelling corrections since posted and changed the direction that the vehicle was traveling. The vehicle was traveling from south to north, at least that's what I think I heard the Engineer say. Not much room to get going fast if traveling from south to north, having just turned off the highway. Come to think of it, and I'll check next time I'm out that way, but if he was coming from the north side, the driver may have been able to see the train which might explain him trying to beat it, thinking he may have had a chance, his view would have been obstructed if coming from the south side, (Soldan's). (ah, Monday morning quarterbacking....). Either way he was coming from, the Engineer did say "he was flying". Last edit, now from seeing a video still of the front of the train, the car was impacted on the driver's side, making it going south to north (railroad timetable direction) or east to west (actual compass direction). Confusing.... A railroad track has endless turns, curves, so what would appear to be a geographically northward or southward track would be listed as an eastward or westward track in the railroads employee's timetable. The track direction is established in the employees timetable. They can't change the track direction in the timetable every time there is a curve. (darn, I would hate to be an official investigator...). Now I know why I don't post that much.

[AARR]

Very interesting Hogger1225. You normally a man of few words so I am surprised at the great detail of your story. Thanks for posting, its a very interesting read as I have never been in a car/train aqccident (and hopefully never will)

[TrainWatcher]

Thanks for posting Bill. Its nice that the crew handled the situation with dignity and respect.

[Hogger1225]

The crew was terrific. Couldn't have been handled any better as far as I'm concerned.

[Hogger1225]

Don't normally go into speculation on these things but from what I have observed for years at this location here are some thoughts about this one...

Millet Hwy at this location is really a service drive only for the Meijer Warehouse since the road was cut when the buildings were put up. Trains that enter the old Snow Road GTW yard go very slowly through here and often stop. Which makes me think that employees of the warehouse take risks to avoid being 'trapped' going and coming from work. My speculation is that the driver decided to take the chance and lost to avoid this situation above and at night failed to correctly judge the speed of the passenger train coming. Down at Mt Hope crossing on the other side of this yard you will see the same thing from time to time of cars going around the gates too trying to avoid slow movers or stopped for switching trains.....
Just my two cents worth.

For what it's worth, one can get out of that area if "trapped" on the north side of the tracks, if one knows the way out. You can get up to Mt. Hope Hwy by backtracking if you know where you're going, but it's not the easiest I'll admit if you've never done it before. That's how the school buses left the scene.

[Larry G]

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/Vide ... ideo||news

[Larry G]

Train crossing danger: 9 crashes since '75

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/arti ... |FRONTPAGE

[Norm]

Bill,

Thanks for the perspective from a railroader 's point of view. It's tragic to say the least, but there will always be idiots on this planet. My heart goes out to the train crew.

[PAT.C]

millet hwy is an east/west rd. and the car was west bound.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=42.6975766&lo ... 19&l=0&m=h

THE B & I BAR IS 3 BLOCKS E. OF THE ACCIDENT SITE. I GO ACROSS THOSE TRACKS OFTEN.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=42.6981207&lo ... 17&l=0&m=h

[Hogger1225]

PAT, we're talking in terms of railroad timetable direction, not actual compass direction. So that would put the train traveling east, and Millet Hwy as a "north-south" road, that seems to be confusing a few people. And I see from a video that the car was indeed traveling from south to north, railroad timetable-wise, or east to west, compass-wise. It shows the engine impacted the car on the driver's side.

So pull my finger!

[Larry G]

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/arti ... |FRONTPAGE

quote from article..
"Eaton County Undersheriff Fred McPhail said motorists tend to get frustrated in that area because a nearby train switching station causes many freight trains to move slowly through the crossing. About 20 trains cross there daily, records show.

Motorists are often motivated “to beat the train,” McPhail said."

[bctrainfan]

Condolences and prayers for the driver of the car and their family, as well as the train crew. Its a pretty traumatic experience. Thankfully it wasn't worse.
Which brings me to a point thats come up here many times before... what if that train is at 110 mph? It may only be a 40-50 mph difference but thats huge when you are talking about the energy and dynamics of a crash. I would think its far more likely to derail the train at higher speeds, especially if it is hitting something larger than a car like a garbage truck or something. Look at the recent Jackson crash that put the engine and a couple cars on the ground. And the likelihood of passenger and crew casualties is much higher if the train leaves the tracks.
My point is that people are stupid. If they can get around a barrier, they will. They do it all the time with RR crossing gates, construction barricades, even police cars parked crossways in the road with emergency lights on and lines of cones and flares on both sides (been there ) And other s**t happens, things break down, get stuck, etc.
It seems that there is either going to have to be grade seperation or at least physical barriers that completely block all traffic lanes on both sides of th RR crossing, to ensure a better level of safety as these passenger trains reach higher and higher speeds. No amount of training or public interest ads will prevent the occasional moron from driving in front of a train. Unfortunately, their poor decision making is more likely to kill/injure a lot of other people when its a high speed passenger train.

[Saturnalia]

Here are a few options to stop folks form going across:
Double crossing gates: fairly cheap, and block the whole road. There is the chance that they fail to activate
Grade separation: costs are in the millions. It will always keep the two ROWs separated, but that cost is a servere burden on the govt budget
Gates with road barriers: new idea, set up on the DET corridor near yipsi? Works great, but can have problems activating, especially in a colder climate like Michigan. Corrosion is also an issue.

I think the best option of now would be double crossing gates.

[M.D.Bentley]

Double gates, Bad idea, if they fail ( emergency vehicles , etc. ) all the others cost money that nobody has these days. Education is the best and sometimes it take an accident to bring it to the public's attention . I believe that George Carlin said it best, YOU have to go to the train to get hit, they can't swerve off of the track to get you.

[Raildudes dad]

Double gates have not been installed because of the potential for a vehicle to be trapped between the 2 gates. That's why they use the barrier to keep a vehicle from going around the lowered gate.