Engine fire at Kent City

[amtrak1007]

The RR is 25, IIRC for insurance reasons. Also IIRC they use dynamic coming down Comstock Park Hill, Newaygo and Komje hills...

[SD80MAC]

The RR is 25, IIRC for insurance reasons. Also IIRC they use dynamic coming down Comstock Park Hill, Newaygo and Komje hills...

And whatever the big hill is coming into Manistee near Fountain IIRC

[JStryker722]

Well thanks for the dynamic braking information. And the terrain of the GRE and their track speed. Now the big question is since this unit caught fire as the 3rd unit of a consist,how were the dynamic brakes enabled when they were disabled,besides the M.U. Set up? And why would you stick an locomotive with disabled dynamic brakes in a consist with locomotives that have dynamic brakes enabled on track that is known to require dynamic brakes for lengthy trains and/or hilly track? I think that's reasonable to ask.

[SD80MAC]

Well thanks for the dynamic braking information. And the terrain of the GRE and their track speed. Now the big question is since this unit caught fire as the 3rd unit of a consist,how were the dynamic brakes enabled when they were disabled,besides the M.U. Set up? And why would you stick an locomotive with disabled dynamic brakes in a consist with locomotives that have dynamic brakes enabled on track that is known to require dynamic brakes for lengthy trains and/or hilly track? I think that's reasonable to ask.

Keep in mind this was on Marquette Rail, the 3839 was just reassigned there from Muskegon where it has been on the Michigan Shore. It hasn't been on the GRE since 2005.

[Saturnalia]

And the terrain of the GRE and their track speed.

Not the GRE it is MQT. The GP38 was originally the GRE, hence the paint, then was pulled when they no longer needed the HP, and was transferred to the MS. Apparently, G&W thought the MQT could use some more power, so sent it over. MQT guy apparently was not used to the unit's specifics, IE no dynamics, thought he fixed the issue but instead caused one.

Edit: it is a GP38, not dash 2 as I originally stated. Thank you SD80MAC for the correction

[CSX_CO]

Using dynamics is a FUEL SAVER. Stretch braking a train uses a LOT of fuel. (or so the propagandists at J-ville explain). The ERAD system on CSX will tell on you if you stretch...so you can't anymore. The ERAD knows and tells all.
ERAD is the thing you see on the GE commercials that they tout as giving the location, speed, payload, etc, etc of this and that train.

You can still stretch brake to a stop, that has never been 'outlawed', but it is the stretch braking and 'running releases' they flag. Also, when the system was installed, the RFE's on the territory could set up areas that wouldn't 'flag' if someone used stretch braking to slow the train. Places where terrain, etc would make stretch braking to slow the train a 'preferred' method.

ERAD was originally designed for "Electronic Reporting and Diagnostics" and for GE's use. CSX found out what it was 'capable' of, and wanted access. GE has said it wasn't designed for what they were using it for, i.e. reporting of engineers using stretch braking, speeding, etc. Now you have "Trip Optimizer" which would be designed for the 'reporting' of an engineer's performance.

Practice Safe CSX

[JStryker722]

Oops on mistaken the MQT for the GRE cuz of the paint scheme lol.Well by the sounds of it,they need a repair job,paint job,and a more knowledgable mechanic for that unit lol

[JStryker722]

What's NS rules on dynamic vs. air braking?

[SD80MAC]

What's NS rules on dynamic vs. air braking?

When my good friend worked for NS a few years ago, they were basically not allowed to use air brakes unless the train was already almost stopped or there was an emergency. All slowing of the train had to be done with dynamics.

[GP30M4216]

For the record, Z151 was southbound from Baldwin around 11am with 3003, 2004 and GRE 3839 with 54 cars. Hit downtown Brohman at 1145 and approaching White Cloud at 1210. I chased them from County Line Road down to Walnut Street, glad I got photos of 3839, unles anyone else was out these will be the last per-fire shots of her!

Kent City is slower, however. There are some nice hills, the down and up grades around Newaygo into the Muskegon River Basin comes to mind. There is also a dip down to Half Moon Lake, then back up around the orchards, before dropping again into Kent City, where oh by the way they have to slow down.

In my opinion, the Baldwin Subdivison from Grand Rapids north thru Baldwin to Ludington and Manistee is among the most scenic stretches of railroading in Michigan. The line from Baldwin south follows the undulating landscape of west Michigan moreso than the Baldwin west line. There are some great hills where other roads cut and filled to even out the roadbed. I actually got some great shots of this train rolling first down and then up the hill just south of 5 Mile Road in Newago County - pretty fantastic!

When CSX operated the rails, the speed limit was 40mph over the welded rail as far north as Bitely, then 25mph beyond that over joined rail. I read on an early version of MQT's website that they lowered the entire speed limit down to 25 "as an environmentally friendly fuel saver." I know when I first caught the southbound along M-37 south of the county line, they were only doing 10 - but evidence of tie replacement was noted and I guess they must have slow orders out.

[J T]

I actually got some great shots of this train rolling first down and then up the hill just south of 5 Mile Road in Newago County - pretty fantastic!

Yeah, that dip is one of my favorites:

[CAT345C]

RA, GW, MQT, CSX, NS, what every ABTH book you want to read will say to using Throttle Modulation and Dynamic Braking to control speed over air. It conserves less fuel. Kent City is a gradual grade south for a few miles, why stretch break when you can maintain speed with throttle modulation or dyno? Plus once you get into your air you wont have full charge for the bigger hills south of Kent City.

[JStryker722]

In other words: it's preferred to either let off the throttle/coast and/or use dynamic brakes for everything short of big hills or final/emergency braking application of the train?

Also if MQT is only 25mph,why does their website and Wikipedia say they maintain their track to 40mph?

[CSX_CO]

What's NS rules on dynamic vs. air braking?

When my good friend worked for NS a few years ago, they were basically not allowed to use air brakes unless the train was already almost stopped or there was an emergency. All slowing of the train had to be done with dynamics.

NS for years 'outlawed' running releases to discourage stretch braking. Basically said if you needed to use the air to control speed, then you had to use the air to 'stop' before releasing the brakes. Once stopped, you could release the brakes, and start again.

Practice Safe CSX

[knute]

The speed limit has never been 25mph ,except up until recently for this track work season ,otherwise its been 30mph since late 06 when it was lowered from 40 for fuel conservation, and up there every method is used to get a train over the road ,it all comes down to ,what kind of a train you have and what will work best for that train there is no set way, every train is different .

[JStryker722]

Okay now it's all making sense to me lol. I never realized there were so many do's and don'ts with dynamic vs. air braking until now. Also makes sense to lower track speed to save on fuel,at least for a shortline.

Still sucks that a mechanic's error in fixing dynamic brakes ruined a good unit until repaired once again

[GreatLakesRailfan]

Okay now it's all making sense to me lol. I never realized there were so many do's and don'ts with dynamic vs. air braking until now. Also makes sense to lower track speed to save on fuel,at least for a shortline.

Still sucks that a mechanic's error in fixing dynamic brakes ruined a good unit until repaired once again

It's been reported elsewhere that the dynamics weren't the problem...

While we're on the subject though, if one unit in a consist has broken dynamics, does that prevent all of the other DB equipped units in the consist from using dynamics as well?

[GP9R]

Okay now it's all making sense to me lol. I never realized there were so many do's and don'ts with dynamic vs. air braking until now. Also makes sense to lower track speed to save on fuel,at least for a shortline.

Still sucks that a mechanic's error in fixing dynamic brakes ruined a good unit until repaired once again

It's been reported elsewhere that the dynamics weren't the problem...

While we're on the subject though, if one unit in a consist has broken dynamics, does that prevent all of the other DB equipped units in the consist from using dynamics as well?

I do not think so, unless the engine is simply not equipped with Dynamic brakes. I'm not sure if Cutting out the lead unit disables all units or not

[glc395]

What ever the cause of this fire was, let one thing be known, this would have never happened if the 2635 had been in the consist with its caboose, in fact more than likely the 2635 could have pulled this train all by itself, but being MQT did not want to change the rotation of the earth and for the survival of humanity they gave it back to GMTX, rumor has it 2635 might be over in Cairo Egypt trying to work out a peace deal for the Egyptian government at this time.

[CSX_CO]

I do not think so, unless the engine is simply not equipped with Dynamic brakes. I'm not sure if Cutting out the lead unit disables all units or not

As long as the lead unit is equipped with dynamic brakes, then all units with dynamic brakes cut in will function, even if the leaders is inoperative and/or cut out. If the lead unit doesn't have dynamic brakes, then you cannot use the feature for the rest of the units in the consist, mostly because the control stand won't have the required controls.

When doing a required 'running' brake test when first taking control of a consist, it was wise to test the dynamics. I usually ran with the leader 'isolated' out of the house, so I could test the effectiveness of the trail unit. If it slowed me down, I could use the amp meter to know how well the leader was working. If the 2nd unit didn't slow us down, then I knew it wasn't working properly.

It should also be noted that in-operative dynamic brakes is not considered an FRA shopping defect. You can run a locomotive with the dynamic brakes inoperative or cut out. The only stipulation is that the locomotive is tagged with the dynamic brakes cut out, and a tag placed on the controlling locomotive so that subsequent crews know they are cut out.

Practice Safe CSX