"Track Defect"

Saturnalia · Unread post by **Saturnalia** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:48 pm

He makes a pretty big deal about it...more than it is worth certainly. What say the railroaders on here?

Norm · Unread post by **Norm** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 am

Well, everyone here knows I'm not a rail but I've seen track flex much more than that and is not considered a problem. The old Durand diamond was if far worse shape before it got replaced. BTW, his so-called defect can be fixed in a couple hours with new ties and a tamper.

Mr. Tops · Unread post by **Mr. Tops** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:06 am

Ties really don't even need to be replaced, just needs tamping. Doesn't even appear to be a slow order on it as the train is moving right along close to 50. Not a defect, just a soft spot; they pop up all over the place when it rains, melting snow, etc. The bad ones get slow orders until they're fixed, but this one is not bad. I can't stand watching this moron's videos. Some of them are meant to be "funny" but they are just painful to watch as he offers his railroad "expertise"...

Raildudes dad · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:26 pm

Shouldn't be captioned "Really Bad Tracks", "a soft spot" is more like it. They are more spectacular when they are full of water and mud squirts out with every truck that passes over

. I'm sure the track inspector knows it's there and is duly noted in his report. Like Mr. Tops said, bad ones get slow orders.

SousaKerry · Unread post by **SousaKerry** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:29 pm

I can't stand watching this moron's videos. Some of them are meant to be "funny" but they are just painful to watch as he offers his railroad "expertise"...

Yeah that...

This guy is the type that gives us foamers a bad name, I mean he obviously know nothing about what he is talking about but goes around spouting off like he is an expert...oh...wait...um,

No this guy is great spot on couldn't agree with him more.

But seriously, if he wants to see bad mud holes he should have see the CSX tracks on the Willard Sub. before they rebuilt it after the Conrail split. I've been to Plant City, Fl. many times on business trips as we have a plant there right next to the tracks trust me that line is in great shape.

redcrumbox · Unread post by **redcrumbox** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:57 pm

A real winner.

JoJames · Unread post by **JoJames** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:55 pm

No FRA defect there from what I can see without taking measurements.

Unread post by **AARR** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:11 pm

Norm wrote:The old Durand diamond was if far worse shape before it got replaced.

It was fun to watch the old Durand diamond before it was replaced. There is at least one picture where the wheel looks like its 1/2-1" off the rail bouncing over the crossing

Norm · Unread post by **Norm** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:28 pm

AARR wrote:
Norm wrote:The old Durand diamond was if far worse shape before it got replaced.
It was fun to watch the old Durand diamond before it was replaced. There is at least one picture where the wheel looks like its 1/2-1" off the rail bouncing over the crossing

Agreed, Don. I kept wondering when one was going to miss the rail on the way back down. The cars behind it would have made mincemeat of the depot.

hoborich · Unread post by **hoborich** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm

Seems to me that rail flexing up and down would eventually break from the constant flexing. Take a piece of steel and keep bending it back and forth, and see what happens. Yeah, I know it's a big steel rail. But the same principals apply.

Mr. Tops · Unread post by **Mr. Tops** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:46 am

hoborich wrote:Seems to me that rail flexing up and down would eventually break from the constant flexing. Take a piece of steel and keep bending it back and forth, and see what happens. Yeah, I know it's a big steel rail. But the same principals apply.

Slim chance this ever did happen but if it did, CTC would drop and trains will be running on restrictve signals. A train will make it over a broken rail at restricted speed 99% of the time. They'd probably make it over it at 50 mph 99% of the time too because it's just a separation; the rail is still held in place by the ballast, ties and spikes. Rail is made of high quality steel alloy and is designed to be malleable, yet strong. It has to allow for the climate change it faces and the ability to expand and contract. If the rail did not flex like you see in the video, it would then certainly break from the force of the train and the underlying soft spot.

CSX_CO · Unread post by **CSX_CO** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:13 am

Mr. Tops wrote: Slim chance this ever did happen but if it did, CTC would drop and trains will be running on restrictve signals. A train will make it over a broken rail at restricted speed 99% of the time. They'd probably make it over it at 50 mph 99% of the time too because it's just a separation; the rail is still held in place by the ballast, ties and spikes. Rail is made of high quality steel alloy and is designed to be malleable, yet strong. It has to allow for the climate change it faces and the ability to expand and contract. If the rail did not flex like you see in the video, it would then certainly break from the force of the train and the underlying soft spot.

I made it across a 12" missing ball section of the rail one time at 50. Not sure how we didn't derail all over the place, but somehow my 100+ cars stayed where they needed to. Since it didn't break all the way down, signals didn't drop. Came around a curve and with the sun glint something just didn't look right. Hit it and instantly knew. I dropped my counter and breathed a HUGE sigh of relief when my train length finally ticked off and we were still rolling. Call the dispatcher and the next train behind us was able to find the problem and MOW was dispatched.

Practice Safe CSX

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:02 am

hoborich wrote:Seems to me that rail flexing up and down would eventually break from the constant flexing. Take a piece of steel and keep bending it back and forth, and see what happens. Yeah, I know it's a big steel rail. But the same principals apply.

Can you make a demo video to show us what you mean? I can't imagine a flexible length of steal breaking from very slight bowing in opposite directions over an extended period of time. Bending, perhaps, but not bowing, which is what the rail in the video is doing.

Saturnalia · Unread post by **Saturnalia** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:06 am

J T wrote:
hoborich wrote:Seems to me that rail flexing up and down would eventually break from the constant flexing. Take a piece of steel and keep bending it back and forth, and see what happens. Yeah, I know it's a big steel rail. But the same principals apply.
Can you make a demo video to show us what you mean? I can't imagine a flexible length of steal breaking from very slight bowing in opposite directions over an extended period of time. Bending, perhaps, but not bowing, which is what the rail in the video is doing.

It's called "ribbon rail" for a reason

CSX_CO · Unread post by **CSX_CO** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:31 am

MQT3001 wrote: It's called "ribbon rail" for a reason

What reason is that?

Stick rail flexes too, so it is not a characteristic exclusive to CWR.

Practice Safe CSX

SousaKerry · Unread post by **SousaKerry** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:16 am

The reason a small piece of steel will break after repeated bending is actually heat. Take a paper clip and bend it back and forth until it breaks what you are actually doing is heating them material at a sub atomic level and it makes the material harder and thus more brittle to the point where it breaks. Once you break your paperclip feel the broken end it will actually be warm.

Rail on the other hand is big and massive it would take much more energy and friction to heat it to this point, Plus the actual deflection of the rail is minimal. When you break a paperclip you are bending it 90° or more this causes internal friction between the molecules and thus your heat, rail is only flexing a few degrees so the internal friction does not develop. It is the same principal that your car frame goes through when you drive over rough terrain the frame flexes a few degrees but does not break. There are many other factors at work here as well but this is the main factor.

Thus ends today's engineering lecture. I may have gotten a few points wrong but that is the jist of what I have learned over the years of working in an Engineering department and as a Machinist.

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:22 pm

Good post, Kerry.

Jochs · Unread post by **Jochs** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:38 pm

If welded rail didn't flex, how would welded rail trains go around curves?

Mr. Tops · Unread post by **Mr. Tops** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:22 am

Jochs wrote:If welded rail didn't flex, how would welded rail trains go around curves?

If welded rail didn't flex, welded rail trains wouldn't be able to go around curves, because there would be no curves, because welded rail didn't flex...

Y@ · Unread post by Y@ » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:32 am

Finally, a thread that doesn't suck. Good work everyone.

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