Amtrak Service from GR to Detroit?

[TrainWatcher]

http://www.wzzm13.com/story/news/local/ ... t/7480141/

Quite a big new item if it does happen, and I'd definitely be interested in riding, even for the Tulip Festival.

[wyrickj]

10 years is sure a long time to wait I know I'd use it often for business as it beats driving frequently to Ann Arbor.

[Saturnalia]

The question is: how do these trains stop at the new station in GR?!? Each direction would require a time consuming Backup move. Well at least it is by the big tent!

[TrainWatcher]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

[SD80MAC]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

Nope. Just 1 spur that all trains will either have to back into or out of regardless of direction. I applaude their planning.

[Saturnalia]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

Nope. Just 1 spur that all trains will either have to back into or out of regardless of direction. I applaude their planning.

Only arrivals and departures from/to Detroit can enter or exit without a backup move. And even then, unless it is in the plan to change it, Main 1, the main the switch is to, is only good for westbounds, so trains departing eastward, and entering the station from the west will need an EC1, because they will most likely not fit in the Control Point clear of the switch, if the signal position stays the same.

Granted, the old station would still require a backing move for through trains.

[PatAzo]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

Confirmation from where?

[Racer]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

Confirmation from where?

I've heard a rumor going around for test trains as well.

Very recently, the train station in Plymouth (One of the proposed stops) was bought and nobody can figure out who purchased it, but the original owner quickly moved out.

I could see this route being very useful, especially stopping at places that have greatly grown in population over the years such as Howell and Brighton, but 10 years is a long time and anything could happen in a decade. For all we know, in 10 years CSX could be running more trains making an Amtrak train difficult to coordinate at sidings.

Just have to wait and see.

[Saturnalia]

I'm still skeptical to the point that this all got drummed up after CSX filed to abandon the signals. Make a bunch of noise now and CSX will have to replace them all CTC, and maybe Amtrak will show up in a decade.

That's not to say for or against the whole thing, but the timing does seen to be right on point.

[Ypsi]

CSX could be running more trains making an Amtrak train difficult to coordinate at sidings.

Good one poking fun aside, I do not think Detroit-GR would be a good run on it's own, a link with the Pere Marquette, or even extending the Pere Marquette trip all the way to Detroit would make the most sense to me. But once again I am running into the fact that PNT-DET-CHI, and Port Huron-Lansing-Chicago already exist, and are within reasonable driving distance to justify a new route to get to the same place.

I guess what I'm not understanding is why the state or Amtrak would want more trains crisscrossing Michigan when many of the towns on the route are pretty close to current amtrak stations. I get that many towns it could serve are not near Amtrak stations, but is the market as good as other Michigan service markets. I'm not convinced that people from Detroit or intermediate points would want to ride to Grand Rapids or vice versa enough to justify bringing back the GR-Detroit train.

The run from Detroit to Grand Rapids on the highways is about 157 miles according to google maps, if you get 25 mpg or up on the highways, and gas is say $3.60 a gallon (about what were seeing around here, high $3.50's) that trip will cost about $21 (one way) or so in gas. An Amtrak wolverine ticket from battle creek to Chicago, a distance of 160 miles, cost $25 (one way) per person as of today. Plus Grand Rapids and Detroit are both cities where, as far as I know (been to both cities), driving around and parking isn't as crazy or expensive as chicago, so having a car would most likely be preferable. Add on to this, taking a family of 4 would take 4 round trips (so 25x8=125), and you are at the mercy of the train running on time or late. One last thing is the train trip would most likely take considerably longer then driving. The numbers just don't add up to me..

Maybe for linking Michigan to Chicago and the rest of the Amtrak system, but those connections already exist in the form of the wolverine, blue water, and Pere Marquette. But a Detroit-Grand Rapids train doesn't make sencd to me even if you plan on making a connection to Chicago.

These are my thoughts, opinions, and concernes about the potential service. As much as I like more trains, I don't see the point in this one.

[PatAzo]

It's a proposal to do a feasibility study. Proposal meaning they need money to do the study. Feasibility meaning to see if there is a possibility of a convincing argument for the state to pony up the money. Then there is the actual work convincing someone to pay for it. Hence the 10+ year time frame.

[Y@]

I'm sure this will work just about as well as any other train-related Michigan pipe dream.

In other words, it won't work at all. Don't get all excited yet kids.

[ConrailMan5]

So is it a commuter or corridor train? If its corridor I have two issues. 1. it wont take me anywhere I truly want to go. The other Michigan trains can take me to a larger city. and tourist destination, being Chicago. 2. If it is corridor then it probably wont work well for commuters. I just really fail to see the point of a separate GR-DET train. It seems like, as Ypsi said, extending the Pere Marquette to Detroit seems like a better idea.

[Saturnalia]

Now, I think there is a way to get two GRR-CHI trains and a GR-DET pair from just two trainsets.

#370: Morning Chicago Departure, arrive in GR late morning. Depart GR after short layover for Detroit. Becomes #371 next day
#371: Morning Detroit Departure, arrive GR late morning. Depart GR after layover for Chicago. Becomes #370 next day
#372: Afternoon Chicago Departure, arrive GR in the Evening (like current #370). Becomes #373
#373: Morning GR departure, arrive Chicago late morning (like current #371). Becomes #372

I'm not sure how (or even if) the timing and such would work, but it might work. It would have a mid-morning departure from Holland to Detroit, but it would be a mid-afternoon arrival from Detroit, so no HOM-DET-HOM in the same day. But you would get a pair of GR-CHI round trips per day. It would do a decent job of connecting all of those areas they say, but I am skeptical if the ridership is there, anyway.

Let them study it. At worst it will force CSX to keep the signals in on the Plymouth Sub (easier chasing! )

[j32885]

I definitely would be in favor of extending the Amtrak's Pere Marquette passenger train service to Detroit. The Pere Marquette hasn't ran eastbound to Detroit since 1971. It seems currently, CSX traffic on the old PM line is at an all time low, operating restored passenger service to Detroit from G.R. wouldn't be too hard to do at the moment. Biggest problems right now would be: funding, equipment, crew bases, passenger stops, and routing.

[PatAzo]

I'm sure this will work just about as well as any other train-related Michigan pipe dream.

In other words, it won't work at all. Don't get all excited yet kids.

Which pipe dreams are those? Getting federal funds to rebuild the old Michigan Central main? Well, no that's happening. NS spinning it's unwanted track off to someone who'd turn it around? Well no, the state bought what it wanted. Watco's got 100+ miles of it and car counts and track speeds are both up. I know, Amtrak proving out ITCS and running 110MPH...well no that happened too. It can't be steam because 1225 is in service, 765 is coming up in June and the Little River starts it's 2014 season in a couple weeks.

I know it's that Wally train.

[J T]

Then the route would pass through either Brighton or Ann Arbor.

HUH????

[J T]

The Pere Marquette hasn't ran eastbound to Detroit since 1971

And there's a good reason for that: no demand. There will never be enough passengers to warrant a regularly scheduled passenger train between Grand Rapids and Detroit. Maybe one or two weekend trains could work, but 7 days a week? Forget about it.

[TrainWatcher]

Here are just a few added thought points that add to the very likeliness of this service working. Starting from East to West.

1) The connection from the Conrail/NS to the CSX at CP Lou is being upgraded for higher speed trains. This really wouldn't effect Q132/131/151/150 in any reason except the new crossovers on the Conrail to access the van site, no need for a "higher speed" connection if it was just for intermodal. This was reported Nov 24, 2013 by M.D. Bentley.

2) The routing of many CSX thru trains via the Lincoln Secondary in the past year, while there is NO traffic on the Detroit Subdivision. This includes all of the autorack trains (even some as light power down to Carleton and then reversed to New Boston), Q399 and Q392. The Detroit Sub is technically a 3 track mainline from Oak Yard to East Yard (10+ miles of railroad).

3) The Plymouth station all of the sudden being sold. It's been for sale for the better part of 4 years with various tenants renting the property. What if the station was turned into something along the lines of Albion, where the parking there is also limited (30 spaces) and is a technical "flag stop" for Amtrak 352 and 354?. Also, doesn't the City of Albion (not Amtrak) own the stop?

4) The appearance of new signals all along the eastern end of the Plymouth Sub. New Safetrans at MP 25 for Eastbounds, and also off the Grand Rapids Wye (SW Wye), as well as new signals spotted ready for installation locally.

5) New Lansing Amtrak/Multimodal station. Planned, as it will sit right between the CSX and CN mainlines, easy access for either route for either service.

6) Extension of sidings along the Plymouth subdivision. Someone somewhere is expecting more trains on the division and they'll need the room.

JT, I am wondering if NS and Amtrak couldn't work out something with the JAIL to go between Lansing and Jackson. The switches are in the right places at Turner Street and Jackson. and ADBF is LEASING the track from NS. Who says that couldn't be sold to the State and the ABDF left holding the reins?

[msurailfan]

Have had confirmation that TEST trains will be in August, so I presume Alex there has been trackage upgrades at the new GR Union station to accommodate these trains.

Confirmation from where?

I've heard a rumor going around for test trains as well.

Very recently, the train station in Plymouth (One of the proposed stops) was bought and nobody can figure out who purchased it, but the original owner quickly moved out.

I could see this route being very useful, especially stopping at places that have greatly grown in population over the years such as Howell and Brighton, but 10 years is a long time and anything could happen in a decade. For all we know, in 10 years CSX could be running more trains making an Amtrak train difficult to coordinate at sidings.

Just have to wait and see.

Chris, which station is this? The building on the south side of the tracks, on the east side of the crossing across the street from 885? I always thought that would make a great passenger station...