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GLC_391 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:13 pmThe Ann Arbor to Traverse City passenger rail service begins operating on weekend excursions in spring 2021!
https://m.facebook.com/ClareCountyMichi ... _tn__=EH-R
GLC_391 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:13 pmThe Ann Arbor to Traverse City passenger rail service begins operating on weekend excursions in spring 2021!
https://m.facebook.com/ClareCountyMichi ... _tn__=EH-R
MDOT never owned that engine. The company that prepared it put the cart before the horse.David Collins wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pmMDOT screwed themselves over by selling the F59 to Metrolink and then they got rid of it... I wonder if they can get the two MP36's MBTA barely use...
But seriously if there was a strong market for travel between Ann Arbor and Traverse City lease some busses and start hauling passengers. A bus could run up M23 and I75 faster than they can travel up the GLC and do it tomorrow. A bus isn't a train but there are some pretty decent busses and the market is people who don't want to drive.
As someone who drives said vehicles for a living... there’s no market to go to TC on a bus.PatAzo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:45 amBut seriously if there was a strong market for travel between Ann Arbor and Traverse City lease some busses and start hauling passengers. A bus could run up M23 and I75 faster than they can travel up the GLC and do it tomorrow. A bus isn't a train but there are some pretty decent busses and the market is people who don't want to drive.
My take on it is the project isn't as much providing a passenger service as it is providing a project to promote and vision of a future without private cars. Lease a bus and you are in business tomorrow and being in a for profit business is way different than talking about it. Lease a bus, start a service and you are at risk of showing there is not a significant market.
I don't think MDOT ever owned those F59s. From what I understood at the time, a leasing company in Canada had them & figured if they painted them up, it could sweeten the deal for winning the lease to the state for the service. After the service never happened, they went back to being leased to AMT (where I thought they still are, but I've not kept track of them) and operated for a while with AMT in MDOT paint. I'm not even sure they ever even crossed the border into the US in MDOT paint.David Collins wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pmMDOT screwed themselves over by selling the F59 to Metrolink and then they got rid of it... I wonder if they can get the two MP36's MBTA barely use...
Yeah, that's the unit I'm talking about, I believe either former AMT or GO
Agreed, nor for rail service, however....
It’s 239 miles to TC from A2... so you could easily make it up there and charge the car while you go to dinner or stay at your hotel or whatever. You can take the train and be stuck with no effective way to get around when you get there.Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pmAgreed, nor for rail service, however....
It would seem that electric cars will be the only option available for sale within a few years. Currently a reasonably priced electric car has a range of about 350 miles.
If you drive your electric car from metro Detroit to Traverse City you will have a dead battery by the time you get there, if you make it. Assuming you arrive at your destination on one charge you will be stuck there for hours until the car can recharge. Not what tourists want.
Yes, the ranges of EVs will increase, but not at a great rate. The past twenty years of development has only resulted in a doubling of range. (The GM EV1 had a range of less than 150 miles in 1999. A Chevrolet Bolt has a range of about 300 miles in 2021.)
As some else mentioned, owing your own car may become a thing of the past. It is very likely that in the not too distant future, you will summon an autonomous car which arrive where you are and take you where you want to go. Your next trip will be in a different automobile.
There may be a potential market for rail service between Southeast Michigan and Traverse City.
Recharging times are dropping like a stone. It might take 8.5-10 hours to recharge from a standard 220V outlet, but it only takes 20 minutes to get to 50%, 40 minutes to 80% and 75 minutes to 100% at Tesla superchargers, which are becoming ever more numerous. Tesla's onboard computer knows where the supercharger network is, so if you put in your destination, it will show you the fastest route, recharging included. It finds the optimum charging solution. So perhaps you're going 450 miles, just beyond its maximum range. It'll probably have you stop once for just 20 minutes to top it up, and you can get it fully recharged overnight. 20 minutes is a pretty standard food/bathroom stop if you're not in a super hurry.Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pmIf you drive your electric car from metro Detroit to Traverse City you will have a dead battery by the time you get there, if you make it. Assuming you arrive at your destination on one charge you will be stuck there for hours until the car can recharge. Not what tourists want.
Most cars will only do 350-400 miles on a tank of gas. Sure there are plenty of trips beyond that radius, but the vast, vast, vast majority are within the window...many people wouldn't even use a whole charge in a week!Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pmYes, the ranges of EVs will increase, but not at a great rate. The past twenty years of development has only resulted in a doubling of range. (The GM EV1 had a range of less than 150 miles in 1999. A Chevrolet Bolt has a range of about 300 miles in 2021.)
This is the most concise, elegant, on point comment I have ever seen made on this topic.PatAzo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:45 am
My take on it is the project isn't as much providing a passenger service as it is providing a project to promote and vision of a future without private cars. Lease a bus and you are in business tomorrow and being in a for profit business is way different than talking about it. Lease a bus, start a service and you are at risk of showing there is not a significant market.
but i should make you aware airlines have said train travel would be better for shorter trips, and by the way, this is for trains, don't hate on us...TC Man wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:45 amDelta offers several r/t flights from Detroit daily. 35 minute flight vs how many hours on a train?? TC is really growing on the air side of things, not rail. Aside from the usual winter non-stop routes:
Detroit:
Delta
Chicago:
American
United
Minneapolis:
Delta
Phoenix:
Allegiant
Orlando:
Allegiant
Punta Gorda:
Allegiant
Clearwater:
Allegiant
And summer non-stop flights many actually start in April through Sept/Oct):
Atlanta:
Delta
Denver:
United
New York (LGA):
American
Delta
Newark:
United
Washington, DC:
American
Delta
Charlotte:
American
Dallas:
American
Philadelphia (new for 2021):
American
Boston (new for 2021):
American
So, as you can see, even in COVID-19, air destinations are growing a ton. And the airport announced expanding from the current 6 gates to 12 gates. TVC is the 3rd busiest airport in Michigan (beat Midland/Saginaw and Lansing a few years ago), so I don't see the whole train thing working out- EXCEPT as an occasional tourist type train (Cherry Festival, or taking TC folks to other city festivals), etc.
Nobody is hating on you, however it’s also important to process that wanting more trains running doesn’t always make business or financial sense. That’s why nobody is saying relay track to connect podunk towns somewhere with passenger service ala 1925... there are severe limitations to what people are willing to do even if it’s not their money. Air travel is next to impossible for a bus or train to really compete with these days outside of select corridors.David Collins wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:14 pmbut i should make you aware airlines have said train travel would be better for shorter trips, and by the way, this is for trains, don't hate on us...TC Man wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:45 amDelta offers several r/t flights from Detroit daily. 35 minute flight vs how many hours on a train?? TC is really growing on the air side of things, not rail. Aside from the usual winter non-stop routes:
Detroit:
Delta
Chicago:
American
United
Minneapolis:
Delta
Phoenix:
Allegiant
Orlando:
Allegiant
Punta Gorda:
Allegiant
Clearwater:
Allegiant
And summer non-stop flights many actually start in April through Sept/Oct):
Atlanta:
Delta
Denver:
United
New York (LGA):
American
Delta
Newark:
United
Washington, DC:
American
Delta
Charlotte:
American
Dallas:
American
Philadelphia (new for 2021):
American
Boston (new for 2021):
American
So, as you can see, even in COVID-19, air destinations are growing a ton. And the airport announced expanding from the current 6 gates to 12 gates. TVC is the 3rd busiest airport in Michigan (beat Midland/Saginaw and Lansing a few years ago), so I don't see the whole train thing working out- EXCEPT as an occasional tourist type train (Cherry Festival, or taking TC folks to other city festivals), etc.