BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
- Hogger1225
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Speaking of Calvin (Humphreys), one of his more favorite stunts when he wasn't busy was to open the OS at Parma, the microphone was hung under the eve on the phone booth, key up the dispatcher's radio when the train would be blowing for the crossing at Parma and you would literally hear yourself go by the crossing. He was doing that one night with me and every time he keyed up the radio I would let up on the horn. All you heard that night was a series of short toots instead of the standard 2 longs, a short, and a long.
I used to get paid for doing what all of you like to watch!
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Hey GAP, great to see your post on here. I learned so much about BO and all the lines radiating out from it during my early days at WMU from you and our frequent chats at the library! Thank you for that!GAP wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:27 amOnce when a northbound NS was approaching KAL and Amtrak was already at the depot the tower operator told the NS to "ease it on down" knowing that Amtrak would be gone by the time the freight got to downtown. After the Amtrak had left, the tower instructed "ease it on down a little more." I'm still confused if that meant go faster or go slower.
I also recall the “ease it on down” statement over the radio and took that to mean “take it nice and easy (slow)”
- M.D.Bentley
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
AH, another member of the "Century Club". Worked with a few of them out of DETROIT.PatAzo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:47 pmSome of the Conrail old-heads running Amtrak trains would crack the whip west of Kalamazoo. That is until they caught Bernie Potts go through Lawton at 100+MPH.
The Decatur Police Department called BO threatening to start writing tickets if trains didn't slow down. Bill Pontius replied "Well if you can catch one go ahead" and started laughing. He said he got a call from the train master a few days later about being more polite when answering the city phone.
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Ben Higdon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:24 pmI always appreciated Bob Biddle answering calls as "B.O. in the tower" or "Bo Tower".
Last edited by PatAzo on Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Those notes on unique operations at Botsford are very interesting! I'd love to hear more.
I never got past the door with Bob Biddle. I got to know Al Johnson the best, I miss shooting the breeze with him up there. I bought a set of golf clubs from him one time, and passed up other buying opportunities, and he would buy a copy of my train magazine when I had a new issue. One story of his I remember was when a derail on the CK&S for the main line crossing was frozen and he couldn't get it to open using the armstrong lever. Al was a big guy, and thought it was funny when the GTW sent a skinny guy up there to try throwing the lever.
First time I met Al, it was dark out when I walked up and knocked on the door. I could see him through the window walking up to the door with a wooden club in his hand - scared the crap out of me! It was a sketchy area down there.
I never got past the door with Bob Biddle. I got to know Al Johnson the best, I miss shooting the breeze with him up there. I bought a set of golf clubs from him one time, and passed up other buying opportunities, and he would buy a copy of my train magazine when I had a new issue. One story of his I remember was when a derail on the CK&S for the main line crossing was frozen and he couldn't get it to open using the armstrong lever. Al was a big guy, and thought it was funny when the GTW sent a skinny guy up there to try throwing the lever.
First time I met Al, it was dark out when I walked up and knocked on the door. I could see him through the window walking up to the door with a wooden club in his hand - scared the crap out of me! It was a sketchy area down there.
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Just by chance i happened to be searching for something completely different and stumbled across this photo. It shows the 1941 NYC Mercury in Kalamazoo with both the BO tower barely visible in the far right and another tower. I believe there were 2 towers in Kalamazoo correct? Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO
Description of Photo: N.Y.C. (M.C.) #5445 4-6-4 (Mercury Train) Kalamazoo, Michigan - Photo taken July 4, 1941 of locomotive in front of Coke sign.
Link: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/338192253239512716/
Description of Photo: N.Y.C. (M.C.) #5445 4-6-4 (Mercury Train) Kalamazoo, Michigan - Photo taken July 4, 1941 of locomotive in front of Coke sign.
Link: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/338192253239512716/
- Standard Railfan
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Nice find!GTW Dude wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:22 pmJust by chance i happened to be searching for something completely different and stumbled across this photo. It shows the 1941 NYC Mercury in Kalamazoo with both the BO tower barely visible in the far right and another tower. I believe there were 2 towers in Kalamazoo correct? Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO
Description of Photo: N.Y.C. (M.C.) #5445 4-6-4 (Mercury Train) Kalamazoo, Michigan - Photo taken July 4, 1941 of locomotive in front of Coke sign.
Link: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/338192253239512716/
The was another tower called Tower 1 (IIRC) located where the NYC crossed the PRR west of BO.
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Would you mind sharing what you remember about your ride on the yard job? What customers were worked, etc?PatAzo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:43 pmThe summer I rode around with the yard job the conductor was Carl Edoff and brakeman was Gary Waskiewicz both ex-PRR guys from Grand Rapids. The engineer was usually either R.C. Moore or Art Lusher. R.C was an NYC guy from Jackson I think. Art was from Elkhart.
Thats a great photo of the Mercury, I haven't see that one.
- MQT1223
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Tower 1 is preserved at the Gilmore Car Museum.Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:53 amNice find!GTW Dude wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:22 pmJust by chance i happened to be searching for something completely different and stumbled across this photo. It shows the 1941 NYC Mercury in Kalamazoo with both the BO tower barely visible in the far right and another tower. I believe there were 2 towers in Kalamazoo correct? Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO
Description of Photo: N.Y.C. (M.C.) #5445 4-6-4 (Mercury Train) Kalamazoo, Michigan - Photo taken July 4, 1941 of locomotive in front of Coke sign.
Link: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/338192253239512716/
The was another tower called Tower 1 (IIRC) located where the NYC crossed the PRR west of BO.
Can't say I've seen a photo of a Dreyfuss Hudson in Kalamazoo before.
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
The Detroit-Chicago Mercury ran quite frequently with Dreyfuss Hudsons, in addition to the non-streamlined ones. It's relatively quick turnaround time and short route meant that the Hudson's assigned to the 20th Century Limited could run a train from Chicago to Detroit and back relatively quickly, then take an eastbound 20th Century back to New York.
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
The tower at the Gilmore museum is a crossing tower, I think Church St. Definitely not Tower 1.MQT1223 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:09 pmTower 1 is preserved at the Gilmore Car Museum.Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:53 amNice find!GTW Dude wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:22 pmJust by chance i happened to be searching for something completely different and stumbled across this photo. It shows the 1941 NYC Mercury in Kalamazoo with both the BO tower barely visible in the far right and another tower. I believe there were 2 towers in Kalamazoo correct? Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO
Description of Photo: N.Y.C. (M.C.) #5445 4-6-4 (Mercury Train) Kalamazoo, Michigan - Photo taken July 4, 1941 of locomotive in front of Coke sign.
Link: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/338192253239512716/
The was another tower called Tower 1 (IIRC) located where the NYC crossed the PRR west of BO.
Can't say I've seen a photo of a Dreyfuss Hudson in Kalamazoo before.
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
This video says the tower at the car museum was a crossing tower at Church St. west of the depot. From the photos they are different towers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWHBt0mzImI&t=109s
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
https://goo.gl/maps/TQ1Zf1KgcRXBwgjz5Ben Higdon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm
The tower at the Gilmore museum is a crossing tower, I think Church St. Definitely not Tower 1.
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Last edited by PatAzo on Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Very interesting, thanks for the details! What time frame was this?
Why was ELGR/GREL forbidden to work South Yard? The only time I saw South Yard used for anything but storage was one night when GREL picked up something like 18 cars. I heard it on the scanner and drove down there to watch at Cork St. I think I would have noticed if they were storage cars - I never did hear why they did it.
They must have changed the union rules about not working yards in the same city at some point, as in the mid 90s ELLA took the GTW cars straight through Kalamazoo, and ELDW always had a Battle Creek setout at the head end. For a time there was an ELBC/BCEL that handled the traffic, pretty sure it operated directly into the GTW Battle Creek Yard. Maybe they got out of the union rule by delivering directly to the GTW.
Why was ELGR/GREL forbidden to work South Yard? The only time I saw South Yard used for anything but storage was one night when GREL picked up something like 18 cars. I heard it on the scanner and drove down there to watch at Cork St. I think I would have noticed if they were storage cars - I never did hear why they did it.
They must have changed the union rules about not working yards in the same city at some point, as in the mid 90s ELLA took the GTW cars straight through Kalamazoo, and ELDW always had a Battle Creek setout at the head end. For a time there was an ELBC/BCEL that handled the traffic, pretty sure it operated directly into the GTW Battle Creek Yard. Maybe they got out of the union rule by delivering directly to the GTW.
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
This was the early 80's.
South Yardgg friend. The last time I saw him he was working an ELBC/BCEL. He saw me at Schoolcraft and waved for me to follow. At Botsford he said they were turning at Battle Creek and I could ride with them to Elkhart. They went into Nichols to drop their cars and ran light back to Botsford, picked up and headed to Elkhart. Two BN SD40-2 and a CR B23-7.
South Yardgg friend. The last time I saw him he was working an ELBC/BCEL. He saw me at Schoolcraft and waved for me to follow. At Botsford he said they were turning at Battle Creek and I could ride with them to Elkhart. They went into Nichols to drop their cars and ran light back to Botsford, picked up and headed to Elkhart. Two BN SD40-2 and a CR B23-7.
Last edited by PatAzo on Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Love it - thanks for sharing those stories! I have some train movement sheets from BO in 1982, it sure was busier then with the yard crews, although when I was watching in the early/mid 90s the road freights were more consistent/frequent with 8 per day.
On the handful of times I was at BO to watch LAEL make their pickup around midnight or 1am, it was pretty neat to see a road train passing the tower as they pulled their pickup out of the yard.
The 1982 train sheets show GREL regularly heading into Botsford Yard. I assume they were making a pickup, as when leaving the yard they're noted as "pulling", but I suppose they may have been setting out GM cars to head east the next day. Also not sure where they left their train, I would think the rest of the train for Elkhart would have had to be left north of Patterson St.
On the handful of times I was at BO to watch LAEL make their pickup around midnight or 1am, it was pretty neat to see a road train passing the tower as they pulled their pickup out of the yard.
The 1982 train sheets show GREL regularly heading into Botsford Yard. I assume they were making a pickup, as when leaving the yard they're noted as "pulling", but I suppose they may have been setting out GM cars to head east the next day. Also not sure where they left their train, I would think the rest of the train for Elkhart would have had to be left north of Patterson St.
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
That's a curiosity. They missed having the pick ups ready a few times an left them for the next day. I asked about GREL and Bruce said it wasn't possible. Never say never.
Last edited by PatAzo on Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Ben Higdon
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Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Haha - nice!PatAzo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:56 pmThat's a curiosity. They missed having the pick ups ready a few times an left them for the next day. I asked about GREL and Bruce said it wasn't possible. Never say never.
There were a pair of B36-7's there one day on the old round house lead. Someone from the power desk called ticked that they were at Botsford and were supposed to have left already. Bruce said he'd leave a note for the day job to move them to be picked up. The guy from Philly said he wanted them moved today. Bruce apologized and said there was no yard crew to move them off the engine house lead DREL was already gone so there was no train to pick them up. But he'd leave a note for the day job. The guy from Philly said he didn't want any BS excuses he wanted those units moving to Elkhart TODAY. Bruce got ticked and said he'd move them off the house himself. He'd tie a brake shoe to the whistle valve, set them about 4th notch and let them go. He said "Call Elkhart and tell them they'll see them in about an hour." Then he hung up. The phone rang right away. The guy from Philly said tomorrow would be o.k.
Here are the train sheets for 9/14/82
Did you ever seen a yard job work the South Haven industrial? By the looks of the train sheets I have from September 1982, they maybe ran out there once every week or two.
270356864_10158701248568277_3105933047624852656_n by Ben Higdon, on Flickr
266743344_10158701248698277_7727819572680261991_n by Ben Higdon, on Flickr
268383674_10158701248718277_8031742882498371176_n by Ben Higdon, on Flickr
Re: BO (Botsford) Tower Demolition
Those are interesting sheets. GREL was in Botsford for an hour. I remember the track being there but never saw anything move out the South Haven industrial. There is a move onto the South haven on these sheets.