Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Tonight's 355 just left Pontiac, so it appears that track got repaired pretty fast.
According to this article more service will resume tomorrow.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... ay-travel/
According to this article more service will resume tomorrow.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... ay-travel/
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
-Red Green
-Red Green
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Looks like both videos got taken down…
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:16 pm
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Yes, trains are running again.....355 has the Charter Wire cars on the rear......354 is running push/pull....full schedule tomorrow......and no, 355 wasn't running track speed when it went up the ramp
- David Collins
- Train Paparazzi
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:46 am
- Location: Bloomfield Hills, Mi
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I would think if it was running at full speed, the damage would be much, much worse.
Ferris State University’s Train Guy
Youtube: Michigan Railfan Films
Flickr: David R. Collins
Snapchat: daveeed1k
Youtube: Michigan Railfan Films
Flickr: David R. Collins
Snapchat: daveeed1k
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
see from tv news that the amfleet food and at least 3 horizon coaches were set on the ground. considering chicago is already having a hard time getting trainsets out, that is bad news.
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:34 am
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I watched this video and talk about deer in the headlights moment. I'm impressed with the air that locomotive got. I mean that looks to be about 20 feet in the air or so. I can't believe this trains derailment isn't worse. The fact the locomotive remained upright as well as the other cars. Its not just that either, from the photos I've seen that Siemens Charger didn't take a ton of damage. The nose wasn't even flatened.
I've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
tightlock couplers worked
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
The biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
There are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed. Do we know if the 1-800 number was ever called and if so, what was the response from Amtrak to the person who called? Unfortunately there have been cases where the railroad has told someone one thing, but that was not based on the full story and as a result, and incident happened or almost happened. (A family member was involved in one of those incidents, and someone was almost killed as a result.)Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmThe biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
Was the train notified of the issue on the tracks or were they never notified? Was a call ever even made.
There is a reason the NTSB investigates this type incidents. It will be interesting to see what the investigation determines. I'm not saying the tow truck operator was blameless, but at the same time, were they given correct or incorrect information, was information never even shared? I'm sure the NTSB is already looking at the communication logs for all parties.
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:34 am
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Something wasn't communicated properly. A good portion of the time things that happen like this is because of human error. Very seldomly does track circuitry and electronics cause accidents like this. I'm waiting to find out what more Amtrak has to say about this whole incident. I also wonder if the NTSB is going to get involved. Still the 1-800 number is what should've been done. So, in a sense I do put blame on the first responders. There is a big learning lesson here for first responders for this event.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmThe biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
True, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.chapmaja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:04 pmThere are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmInstead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
The rest of my points, as do yours, stand as they are.
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
The rumor floating around on the comments of those Facebook videos has it that a railroad was called but it might not have been Amtrak. Some say CSX was contacted instead, but again that is speculation at this point and like people said before it could have just taken too long to contact the train from dispatch even if the number was called properly
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:34 am
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
That is speculation no doubt but its also possible. I wouldn't doubt the possibility of CSX being called as the Grand Rapids Sub isn't too far from this location. I'm not entirely sure about the time it gets dispatch to the train after the call. I know the times I've called for malfunctions the signal maintainer has showed up in less than 10 minutes. Then again GR sub isn't as busy as other lines. I imagine it wouldn't take too long to get the train to stop.JBaxter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:34 amThe rumor floating around on the comments of those Facebook videos has it that a railroad was called but it might not have been Amtrak. Some say CSX was contacted instead, but again that is speculation at this point and like people said before it could have just taken too long to contact the train from dispatch even if the number was called properly
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I have some fairly good intel that the police called CSX instead of Amtrak, being that the same road also crosses the GR Sub. Sounds like the police were maybe approved to work on the basis that the GR Sub was Ok.
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I think we agree, this should not have happened. I thought I read somewhere the NTSB is investigating because there were injuries to crew members involved.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:04 amTrue, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.chapmaja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:04 pmThere are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmInstead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
The rest of my points, as do yours, stand as they are.
- Jetlink
- Not a Railfan
- Posts: 3600
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:41 pm
- Location: 2.5 miles from CH 116.3
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I was thinking the exact same thing. The trainset remaining coupled and upright certainly contributed to the minimization of casualties. Not to mention the crash worthiness standards of the equipment as well.
interested in trains
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline
- justin_gram
- Authority on Rabbit
- Posts: 4678
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:45 pm
- Location: St. Joseph CG91.9 / East Lansing CH87
- Contact:
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Yup, Berrien County 911 notified CSX it sounds like, not AMTK.
https://www.wsjm.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... m=facebook
And
https://www.wndu.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... bugfsa8kk9
https://www.wsjm.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... m=facebook
And
https://www.wndu.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... bugfsa8kk9
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
The database was down so nobody knew what to do. Such a shame. For reasons exactly like this, the police dispatcher shouldn’t be using a database. The standard practice should be for the officer or caller on the scene to read the info on the blue sign. Eliminates errors like this.
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
I didn't realize the rear unit was sitting on the siding at Three Oaks, but I did see the lead unit and cars set aside along US 12 yesterday.
I don't think anyone bothered calling the number on the crossing signal, at least not at first. This would have put the caller in direct communication with the operating railroad, Amtrak, not CSX.
"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#
Sounds like a data base was down in the 911 system allowing them to enter cross streets, and the 911 dispatcher called CSX by mistake. (CSX also crosses Lakeside Rd.)I don't think anyone bothered calling the number on the crossing signal, at least not at first. This would have put the caller in direct communication with the operating railroad, Amtrak, not CSX.
"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#
Jeff O.
Celebrating over 11 years dial-up free!
(18:36:45) MagnumForce: Railfanning is way more fun when you stop caring about locomotives and signals
(19:11:29) cbehr91: I can't believe I'm +1ing Brent but +1
Celebrating over 11 years dial-up free!
(18:36:45) MagnumForce: Railfanning is way more fun when you stop caring about locomotives and signals
(19:11:29) cbehr91: I can't believe I'm +1ing Brent but +1
- Jetlink
- Not a Railfan
- Posts: 3600
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:41 pm
- Location: 2.5 miles from CH 116.3
Re: Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo
Sounds all too familiar.Jochs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:31 pm"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#
interested in trains
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline