CSX Signal Question
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- Railroadfan...fan
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Re: CSX Signal Question
What is the difference between Rule C1291 and C1292? To me, they both appear to be all red, which is a stop indication.
Can someone explain this?
Thanks.
Can someone explain this?
Thanks.
Re: CSX Signal Question
The number boards on the signals indicate they are intermediate signals, between control points. The most restrictive signal is a "restricted proceed" so a train can continue until they encounter either a better signal or an obvious defect or obstruction that they cannot proceed past. Signals without the number boards are absolute signals and you need dispatcher authority to pass them if they are red. They protect switches, diamonds, draw bridges, etc.David Lang wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:12 amWhat is the difference between Rule C1291 and C1292? To me, they both appear to be all red, which is a stop indication.
Can someone explain this?
Thanks.
Just a Fat Guy
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Thanks Pudgy, that helps a lot.
Re: CSX Signal Question
I get what you’re saying. They LOOK the same but mean different things depending on how they display. I’m just used to looking at them (regardless of the rule number) based on location and knowing what the signal can or should display.BnOEngr wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:28 pmWhat is the difference then between 1288(a) and C1288(b)? They're both R/R/Y.CSXT8390 wrote:My signal chart is ripped right out of our rule book and the sign entering the signal rules specifically calls out the rule numbers. You can see the same / similar sign going the opposite direction near the Plymouth Diamond on the line that runs to GR.
What is the difference then between 1286(a) and C1288(a)? They're both R/Y/R.
What is the difference then between 1286(b) and C1290(b)? They're both R/Y.
That is why I described the different denotations in the signal aspects shown in the charts, because the average non-CSX-employee fan could easily get confused.
Anything with a rule starting with C is Chessie signal system. Anything without the C before is the standard CSX “seaboard” signals.
But I’m guessing you know that already.
My opinions and statements are my own personal views and do not represent those of my employer or any other employee associated with my employer unless specifically stated as such.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
I think it would be a lot easier if people just hung out trackside with lamps. Then trains could stop every so often and these folks could just tell the engineers what’s going on and where they should go and how fast etc…
Re: CSX Signal Question
Something else I thought about. While driving on US-23 near Brighton we pass under the CSX mainline. To the west of the expressway is the signal for westbound trains. This appears to be a single light signal.
I assume this is a distant signal before the signal for East End Brighton. I often see this signal in the yellow configuration early in the day, and then red later in the day. For example today, while driving NB abotut 5 pm, it was yellow. Approximately 8:30 pm, it was red. Normally between these times the two trains between Detroit and Grand Rapids have passed through and met at some point near Brighton, correct? Is this signal normally yellow except for when there is an oncoming movement from west to east or does this have something to do with the alignment of the tracks at the east end of Brighton siding?
I assume this is a distant signal before the signal for East End Brighton. I often see this signal in the yellow configuration early in the day, and then red later in the day. For example today, while driving NB abotut 5 pm, it was yellow. Approximately 8:30 pm, it was red. Normally between these times the two trains between Detroit and Grand Rapids have passed through and met at some point near Brighton, correct? Is this signal normally yellow except for when there is an oncoming movement from west to east or does this have something to do with the alignment of the tracks at the east end of Brighton siding?
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Re: CSX Signal Question
The signal at US 23 is the last intermediate before the east end of Brighton. Unlike some of the intermediates on the Plymouth Sub, it is constantly lit. Green if the train is lined through Brighton on the main, some form of approach if lined in the siding (or the train is not yet lined through Brighton), red if there is a train in the block or if a train is lined from the west.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Thank you.SD80MAC wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:01 pmThe signal at US 23 is the last intermediate before the east end of Brighton. Unlike some of the intermediates on the Plymouth Sub, it is constantly lit. Green if the train is lined through Brighton on the main, some form of approach if lined in the siding (or the train is not yet lined through Brighton), red if there is a train in the block or if a train is lined from the west.
Re: CSX Signal Question
That is not correct. The different sets of signal rules are divided into distinct sections in the CSX rulebook. As shown, they are both Rule C1288 (which is Chessie-derived). It doesn't matter how the graphics actually look, and I would bet that the rulebook author simply copied/pasted the graphics from another section versus trying to make a "proper" one.
The only reason I have combined the standard/Seaboard signaling and the C&O/Chessie signals onto one page in my signal chart is because the indications are the same and I thought that would be simpler. A railfan looking at signals along a track still has to know which of the three sets of signal rules to use at that location.
Re: CSX Signal Question
As one who dealt with the different aspects and the Chessie/CSX rulebooks for 42 years, I stand by my comment.Jovet wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:15 pmThat is not correct. The different sets of signal rules are divided into distinct sections in the CSX rulebook. As shown, they are both Rule C1288 (which is Chessie-derived). It doesn't matter how the graphics actually look, and I would bet that the rulebook author simply copied/pasted the graphics from another section versus trying to make a "proper" one.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
BnOEngr..I'll stand with you on this one. No such Chessie/C&O signal indication Red Red Yellow exists up here on Michigan C&O Division trackage east of Lansing. All old searchlite system signals and I ran over there for YEARS. Pulling out various C&O, Chessie and CSX rulebooks says the same.
Again, people with limited knowledge, no railroad work experience and never had a C&O/Chessie/CSX rule book or even took a rules class are just guessing and most are really bad guesses to boot.
Until you take a decent color pic of that red over red over yellow and post it, I call it bogus. Prove us wrong.
Again, people with limited knowledge, no railroad work experience and never had a C&O/Chessie/CSX rule book or even took a rules class are just guessing and most are really bad guesses to boot.
Until you take a decent color pic of that red over red over yellow and post it, I call it bogus. Prove us wrong.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
That is excellent. When did you retire?
Logic tells me that different rules won't be shown in the rulebook together. That is, we are talking about rule C1288 only, as that is what the except from the rulebook shows. It's not showing or talking about C1288 and also 1288 from the previous section. Because then there's no point to the separate section!
Is it perhaps possible that CSX added some non-Chessie aspects to formerly-Chessie territory after you left? That is what the apparent copy-and-paste graphics in the definitely-Chessie section of the CSX rulebook tells me has happened. I have no idea if this is really the case, but perhaps you can tell us. The Chessie/C&O schema is pretty "out there" as far as contemporary practice goes, and trying to get more-standard aspects on that territory makes sense to me as far as managerial thinking. Rule C1288 is certainly not unique in this regard. Even on the same page, we see C1290 with lunar white aspects the C&O/Chessie would never ever have had in a million years, and then there's C1284 on the previous page. But all of these are shown in the Chessie section of the rulebook—mine's from 2017.
I do hope you're not trying to state that there really aren't three separate sections in the rulebook for the three historically-separate signal territories (Standard/Seaboard, C&O, Conrail). The second section covering Rules C1280 through C1298 are very clearly labeled "Chessie" in reference to that territory.
Re: CSX Signal Question
There are 3 separate sections in the rule book for said signal systems. They do not inter-mingle these signals, either. A territory is defined from point to point having a specific signal rule in place. Most of the system has been updated to Standard/Seaboard. The Plymouth Sub has the largest single section of Chessie signals in effect system wide, I believe. Instructors told trainees in Atlanta they wouldn't need to know Chessie signals... That was incorrect...
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Heck, they told me that 10 years ago!pudgy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:01 amThere are 3 separate sections in the rule book for said signal systems. They do not inter-mingle these signals, either. A territory is defined from point to point having a specific signal rule in place. Most of the system has been updated to Standard/Seaboard. The Plymouth Sub has the largest single section of Chessie signals in effect system wide, I believe. Instructors told trainees in Atlanta they wouldn't need to know Chessie signals... That was incorrect...
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Think they will set the new signals up under Seaboard rules? I imagine they would wait until the whole subdivision is resignaled so that the subdivision is defined under one set of rules like you said.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
All new CSX signal installations are Seaboard rules. The Plymouth Sub between Lake Odessa and Seymour has been Seaboard since 2007.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Doktor No wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:51 amBnOEngr..I'll stand with you on this one. No such Chessie/C&O signal indication Red Red Yellow exists up here on Michigan C&O Division trackage east of Lansing. All old searchlite system signals and I ran over there for YEARS. Pulling out various C&O, Chessie and CSX rulebooks says the same.
Again, people with limited knowledge, no railroad work experience and never had a C&O/Chessie/CSX rule book or even took a rules class are just guessing and most are really bad guesses to boot.
Until you take a decent color pic of that red over red over yellow and post it, I call it bogus. Prove us wrong.
I hate to be the bearer of this news, but there is in fact a signal of R/R/Y in the CSX Chessie Signals rules section. I agree there is no location on the Plymouth Sub that uses this combination, but it must exist somewhere, or it wouldn't be in the book.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Not sure if this is relevant but NS does use this signal aspect too on the chicagoline.pudgy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:26 pmDoktor No wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:51 amBnOEngr..I'll stand with you on this one. No such Chessie/C&O signal indication Red Red Yellow exists up here on Michigan C&O Division trackage east of Lansing. All old searchlite system signals and I ran over there for YEARS. Pulling out various C&O, Chessie and CSX rulebooks says the same.
Again, people with limited knowledge, no railroad work experience and never had a C&O/Chessie/CSX rule book or even took a rules class are just guessing and most are really bad guesses to boot.
Until you take a decent color pic of that red over red over yellow and post it, I call it bogus. Prove us wrong.
I hate to be the bearer of this news, but there is in fact a signal of R/R/Y in the CSX Chessie Signals rules section. I agree there is no location on the Plymouth Sub that uses this combination, but it must exist somewhere, or it wouldn't be in the book.
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Slow Approach was my nickname in high school.pudgy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:26 pmDoktor No wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:51 amBnOEngr..I'll stand with you on this one. No such Chessie/C&O signal indication Red Red Yellow exists up here on Michigan C&O Division trackage east of Lansing. All old searchlite system signals and I ran over there for YEARS. Pulling out various C&O, Chessie and CSX rulebooks says the same.
Again, people with limited knowledge, no railroad work experience and never had a C&O/Chessie/CSX rule book or even took a rules class are just guessing and most are really bad guesses to boot.
Until you take a decent color pic of that red over red over yellow and post it, I call it bogus. Prove us wrong.
I hate to be the bearer of this news, but there is in fact a signal of R/R/Y in the CSX Chessie Signals rules section. I agree there is no location on the Plymouth Sub that uses this combination, but it must exist somewhere, or it wouldn't be in the book.
C1288 Slow Approach
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Re: CSX Signal Question
Not relevant at all.David Collins wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:48 pmNot sure if this is relevant but NS does use this signal aspect too on the chicagoline.