Mr. TSB - D&M Covered Hoppers

Unread post by **AARR** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:48 am

In the most recent AARRT&HA's The Double A there's an article about the D&M covered hoppers you used. One of the sentences says that, "Detroit and Mackinac PS2 covered hoppers saw daily service hauling sand for the Ann Arbor and Tuscola and Saginaw Bay during the 1990's".

If my memory serves me correctly you used these cars in cement service between Holnam in Dundee (formerly Dundee Cement, now Holcim) and the terminal in Elmira, Michigan. These former D&M covered hoppers were restenciled GNAX around late 1990's (just guessing) and continue to be loaded at Holcim in Dundee making trips to Elmira and other Holcim terminals.

As far as I know these cars never carried sand.

Please advise. Thank you, Mr. TSB.

TSB · Unread post by **TSB** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:59 pm

Never did.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:02 am

[img=http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/16/op3000hq3.th.jpg] Don are these the railcars your writing about, this was taken in owosso, back in 1992, in july. that trip i went out to pewamo mich, to record the last days of the grand rapids sub, of the CMGN.

Unread post by **AARR** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:14 am

Yes, those are the ones, penn central. They are still in cement service at the Holcim Dundee plant but they're painted solid gray with new markings, GNCX or something like that.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:24 am

You know don i remember those railcars up in alpena and tawas in the 1970's on family trips, do you think that lafarge, it was huron-portland cement back then, used these railcars.

Unread post by **AARR** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:40 am

You know don i remember those railcars up in alpena and tawas in the 1970's on family trips, do you think that lafarge, it was huron-portland cement back then, used these railcars.

Although I never saw them in service on the D&M I'm sure they were purchased for the purpose of cement service and possibly some gypsum too. Back in the 70's those commodities traveled often by rail.

I think in the early 90's LSRC let go many of the box cars and covered hoppers and the covered hoppers were picked up by a leaser and found their way to Holnam (now Holcim) in Dundee.

Ex-D&M box cars are still out there as well unchanged except for different reporting markings.

penn central · Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:32 am

[img=http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2129/op3001oq2.th.jpg] Since were on the subject of old D&M hoppers do you know Don or anyone else what happened to these rail cars, these were always on CMGN, 701 and 702, in the late nineteen eighties, i have not seen them in years. this is in Saginaw on the southbound, look at the river it was very polluted back in the 1970's and 1980's. it was always a bright green, or a murky greenish brown. they have cleaned it up a lot since those days. taken June 1988. the reporting marks are full DMIR but shortly after this was taken they painted over the IR part, and it just showed the DM.

Unread post by **AARR** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:44 am

I was told the ex-DMIR cars were leased by D&M for cement service. It was interesting D&M had very little re-stenciling to do to make them suitable for D&M

However, they were also spotted in consists going to Dow in Midland. They may have been idler cars or handling some commodity. I don't know which.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:55 am

Thanks for the info as always very apprieciated.

Unread post by **AARR** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:59 am

I'm usually good for more questions than answers, penn central

rustbeltrailroad · Fri May 11, 2012 1:00 am

Hey, the 2 bay D&M hoppers were bought by the DM for potash or some cement related thing for servicing LaFarge, but right after DM bought them LaFarge stopped needing it. They were purchased after 1985. They probably took a few trips up to Alpena, but then quickly were leased to the TSBY and made runs between Yuma and Cleavland delivering sand to Ford to make glass. I forget about the ex-DMIR hoppers, I have a article that talks about them somewhere, but I remember them being interchanged between the GTW and CSX in East Lansing in the late 80s early 90s.

PENN CENTRAL, do you have any more pics other than the 2 in this thread? I can not figure out how to access them on ImageShack. I really like them and would love to see what else you got. I am a big-time D&M head.

-Martin

Unread post by **AARR** » Fri May 11, 2012 7:25 am

rustbeltrailroad wrote:Hey, the 2 bay D&M hoppers were bought by the DM for potash or some cement related thing for servicing LaFarge... ...leased to the TSBY and made runs between Yuma and Cleavland delivering sand to Ford to make glass.

It was cement service from Lafarge, not potash.

Did you see Mr TSB's comment that they never saw sand service between Yuma and Cleveland? They were used for cement service from Dundee.

penn central · Unread post by **penn central** » Fri May 11, 2012 9:46 pm

rustbeltrailroad wrote:Hey, the 2 bay D&M hoppers were bought by the DM for potash or some cement related thing for servicing LaFarge, but right after DM bought them LaFarge stopped needing it. They were purchased after 1985. They probably took a few trips up to Alpena, but then quickly were leased to the TSBY and made runs between Yuma and Cleavland delivering sand to Ford to make glass. I forget about the ex-DMIR hoppers, I have a article that talks about them somewhere, but I remember them being interchanged between the GTW and CSX in East Lansing in the late 80s early 90s.

PENN CENTRAL, do you have any more pics other than the 2 in this thread? I can not figure out how to access them on ImageShack. I really like them and would love to see what else you got. I am a big-time D&M head.

-Martin

Hello Rustbelt oh yea i have alot more pics i will have to dig through them to see what i can find thanks.

Saturnalia · Unread post by **Saturnalia** » Fri May 11, 2012 10:02 pm

I saw a D&M railcar southbound on Z151 a few weekends ago (the day they went north w/ the first windmill train). It was a boxcar, and the marking are not that faded (I believe the car had new MQT reporting marks. Will post screenshot soon.

If you look closely at those maroon-colored LSRC 4-bay hoppers, you should be able to see the D&M marks more than half the time.

rustbeltrailroad · Fri May 11, 2012 11:54 pm

AARR wrote:
rustbeltrailroad wrote:Hey, the 2 bay D&M hoppers were bought by the DM for potash or some cement related thing for servicing LaFarge... ...leased to the TSBY and made runs between Yuma and Cleavland delivering sand to Ford to make glass.
It was cement service from Lafarge, not potash.

Did you see Mr TSB's comment that they never saw sand service between Yuma and Cleveland? They were used for cement service from Dundee.

Yes, I may be mistaken or my source may be wrong. So they were used to haul cement from Dundee to Elmira? I had seen some pics of TSBY GPs still in orange paint with a string of them past (North of) Cadillac and I may have assumed it was on the Yuma line. I am gonna search around and see where where I got that info from...
Thanks

Unread post by **AARR** » Sat May 12, 2012 8:21 am

rustbeltrailroad wrote:
AARR wrote:Did you see Mr TSB's comment that they never saw sand service between Yuma and Cleveland? They were used for cement service from Dundee.
Yes, I may be mistaken or my source may be wrong. So they were used to haul cement from Dundee to Elmira? I had seen some pics of TSBY GPs still in orange paint with a string of them past (North of) Cadillac and I may have assumed it was on the Yuma line. I am gonna search around and see where where I got that info from...
Thanks

I thought you knew that Mr TSB owned TSBY from the early 1990's to 2006. He's they guy who leased the D&M covered hoppers for cement service

The reason you saw them in Cadillac is one of the customers for Dundee Cement was their own terminal in Elmira, MI, on the Petoskey line. They would get around 1000 cars a year. During the summer months TSBY would make up to three rounds trips a week between Cadillac and Elmira to switch the terminal. Trucks and the economy eventually cut into this number but for the first years a whole lot of D&M covered hoppers went back and forth between Dundee and Elimra via Cadillac.

FWIW in the early 1990's TSBY was changing sand service cars from predominately CR cars to ex-SOU cars that Mr TSB acquired a fleet nearly 200 for sand service. Later, around 200? Mr TSB also acquired a small fleet of ex-C&NW covered hoppers for sand service and it was either he or GLC that acquired a small group of ex-MKT 2-bays for a sand movement between Yuma and an engine plant in VA IIRC.

sd70accsxt700 · Sat May 12, 2012 3:52 pm

AARR wrote: Later, around 200? Mr TSB also acquired a small fleet of ex-C&NW covered hoppers for sand service and it was either he or GLC that acquired a small group of ex-MKT 2-bays for a sand movement between Yuma and an engine plant in VA IIRC.

I could be wrong, but I believe Mr. TSB did, as they origonaly had TSBY reporting marks on them.

Unread post by **AARR** » Sat May 12, 2012 4:08 pm

sd70accsxt700 wrote:
AARR wrote: Later, around 200? Mr TSB also acquired a small fleet of ex-C&NW covered hoppers for sand service and it was either he or GLC that acquired a small group of ex-MKT 2-bays for a sand movement between Yuma and an engine plant in VA IIRC.
I could be wrong, but I believe Mr. TSB did, as they origonaly had TSBY reporting marks on them.

I think you are right sd70. TSBY acquired the ex-MKT 2-bays.

canpac08 · Unread post by **canpac08** » Sat May 12, 2012 9:46 pm

Saw 1 or 2 ex MKT 2 bay hoppers with GLC marks departing elkhart for Kalamazo this afternoon on GDLK 302 still in green with the big MKT lettering

Unread post by **AARR** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:38 am

canpac08 wrote:Saw 1 or 2 ex MKT 2 bay hoppers with GLC marks departing elkhart for Kalamazo this afternoon on GDLK 302 still in green with the big MKT lettering

I heard there is some sand going to Grand Rapids but I do not think it is being loaded on GLC in Yuma, MI. Maybe someone will know.

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