Amtrak Accident

GTWTD3 · Unread post by **GTWTD3** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:16 pm

A couple of things to point out.

First to Zack. Sure there's people calling signals, it's non stop chatter. Do you think the train sitting at CP-518 was paying close enough attention to the radio to catch the mistake? I'm thinking not. Did the Amtrak engineer call the signal in an audible way? Perhaps not. Lots of iffs and maybes here.

Regarding the engineers honesty, and this is just speculation, but I wonder if they are saying that after the accident he realized that what he had was not a medium approach (which still 40 is violating the words) but a restricting (which is 15 or less stopping w/in 1/2 the range of distance).

amtrak1007 · Unread post by **amtrak1007** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:25 pm

Due to the fact that the Amtrak conductors are NOT in the head end. the engineer is required to pass the signal indication along to them by means of radio. On the NS and CSX there is no exception for this. This is the only way that the conductor would be able to effectively ensure the safety of the train.

esprrfan · Unread post by **esprrfan** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:20 am

railroadfan wrote:One item that crossed my mind is about the calling of signals on NS's line. I know the crew of the NS train ahead of Amtrak was stopped, therefore not calling signals, but couldn't they have heard that Amtrak was calling signals behind them? Might have been a good idea to radio to Amtrak to correct them on their last signal if they called it out incorrectly.
Who know though, maybe Amtrak called it correctly and was just going faster than what they thought the signal meant anyway.

Theres a lot of chatter on the radio in Chicago. So it's hard to "track' other crews trains as your paying attention to whats being directed to your train. That being said the crew of the 23M may of heard Amtrak call the restricting but there is NO WAY to tell if he's doing the correct course of action behind you. The way I understand it the stack train had just been given the resticting at 518 to proceed to Ashland, so at this time they are occupied with getting instructions and the routing for their train from the yardmaster over there as well as running restricted speed themselves.

Normally when I'm parked somewhere and I hear someone coming up behind I'll tell them where we're held up at and how long we are, most crews do this. Then when we start pulling I'll tell them "we're on the move"

We also aren't allowed by the rule book to tell each other what signal they have ahead of them.

gtw5812 · Unread post by **gtw5812** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:07 am

WOW... this thread has really traveled!!

I might be able to save in Federal taxes by Disbanning the FRA, DOT and NTSB, and allowing this board to investigate ALL crashes!!

What ya'll think? Maybe we should let the professionals do it? LOL!

Take Care,

Galen

PerRock · Unread post by **PerRock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:42 am

gtw5812 wrote:WOW... this thread has really traveled!! I might be able to save in Federal taxes by Disbanning the FRA, DOT and NTSB, and allowing this board to investigate ALL crashes!! What ya'll think? Maybe we should let the professionals do it? LOL!

Take Care,

Galen

I'm down for that...I could use the money (I'm assuming the feds would pay us...)

peter

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:54 am

Let the lawsuits commence!

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/6783 ... it.article

Saw this story on the news last night. The man and his lawyer both dramatized things to gain sympathy.

Zargon · Unread post by **Zargon** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:26 am

I am suprised nobody has commented on the train to the right of the accident on the video. COULD have been alot worse....

leo28150 · Unread post by **leo28150** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:50 am

Norm, as an Amtrak engineer, I personally can tell you that speeding to make up time is NOT a way of life; the penalty for willful speeding ends with the numbers ,000.00 and usually starts with a 10 or 5--I don't know anybody who can afford that kind of ticket.

I seriously doubt that the engineer purposely sped up in order to make up time; thru the mysterious practice of PADDING the schedule, every Amtrak train 'makes' up 15 mins. when they run between 21st St. and the station, and given that Amtrak considers trains arriving up to 15 min late On Time, this train would have arrived into CHI on time in the official report; more likely this individual had a momentary lapse of judgement when he sped up after taking the restricting signal.

Personally, I think NS should use the track next to Main #2 ( 33 or 34 track, can't remember as I never have been on it )as a staging track for th Ashland-bound traffic in order to keep at least one track open for trains going 'North-South' and trains coming from Ashland can keep moving instead of trying to take off from a stop on that curve and grade at CP-518.

Norm · Unread post by **Norm** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:31 am

Leo,

I stand corrected, and properly so.

My thoughts of "the good old days" when it was common to make up lost time are out of date.

The price tag on speeding on the railroad sounds like the penalty for DUIL on the roads. OUCH!

SousaKerry · Unread post by **SousaKerry** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:46 pm

since when are passenger trains called "passenger liners" isn't that a boat term????? stupid media

PerRock · Unread post by **PerRock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:03 pm

SousaKerry wrote:since when are passenger trains called "passenger liners" isn't that a boat term????? stupid media

they probably heard that the cars were called "superliners" and pushed the two together....

peter

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:29 pm

leo28150 wrote:Norm, as an Amtrak engineer, I personally can tell you that speeding to make up time is NOT a way of life;

Leo, in the video it appears that they are going through somewhat of a yard. Is it really normally 79mph through there?

esprrfan · Unread post by **esprrfan** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:13 pm

J T wrote:
leo28150 wrote:Norm, as an Amtrak engineer, I personally can tell you that speeding to make up time is NOT a way of life;
Leo, in the video it appears that they are going through somewhat of a yard. Is it really normally 79mph through there?

The mains run next to the 55th st yard. You can't enter the yard off the mains except at Englewood (515) or at 518.

Leo thats 34 track next to #2 main. It becomes 10 track in the yard for loading/unloading the cofc/tofc. On the northside it becomes 3 main. I have no idea why it's "3 main" instead of 3 lead.

Norm · Unread post by **Norm** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:05 pm

SousaKerry wrote:since when are passenger trains called "passenger liners" isn't that a boat term????? stupid media

Whoever said
the media had their "poop in a scoop"? They are young, and learning.

intocable83 · Unread post by **intocable83** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:33 pm

Yeah, I also read that whole lawsuit thing in the paper and had to laugh. These people want to sue Amtrak and NS for injuries that sounded over dramatized. lol
It even said in the paper they had minor injuries but were released from the hospital the same day so it must not have been too bad. can't stand sue happy people!

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:42 am

intocable83 wrote:These people want to sue Amtrak and NS...

A person runs a red light and kills someone. Hey, let's sue the city because that person was driving on their roads.

Lawyers can be good, and other times they can be like vultures.

leo28150 · Unread post by **leo28150** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:17 pm

Sorry for the delay in replying; just got home from a 3 day hospital train.

The top speed for Amtrak thru this area is 40 mph, we can't get up to 79 until CP-501.

J T · Unread post by **J T** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:09 am

leo28150 wrote:Sorry for the delay in replying; just got home from a 3 day hospital train.

The top speed for Amtrak thru this area is 40 mph, we can't get up to 79 until CP-501.

What's with all the reporting of the 79mph limit through there? Oh wait, I know...

RailRoadFan.com

B1G - The Big Train

Amtrak Accident

Let the lawsuits commence!

Re: Let the lawsuits commence!